>> CATHY: FOR THE REST OF THE HOUR, WE WILL HAVE A DEBATE WITH THE LEADING CANDIDATES FOR MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL.

REPUBLICAN RON SCHUTZ HAS OVER 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS A TRIAL LAWYER, AND WHILE THIS IS HIS FIRST RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE, HE WAS RECENTLY A FINALIST FOR U.S.

ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA.

WITH HIM IS INCUMBENT DFLER KEITH ELLISON, CURRENTLY THE 30TH ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE, AND BEFORE THAT HE SERVED OVER A DECADE IN THE U.S.

HOUSE REPRESENTING MINNESOTA'S FIFTH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

THE FORMAT WILL BE TYPICAL FOR AN "ALMANAC" DEBATE.

IT'S NOT REALLY A DEBATE, IT'S A CONVERSATION.

NO TIMED RESPONSES, NO OPENING STATEMENTS, NO PODIUMS OR STOPWATCHES, NO FORCED FORMALITY.

OUR GOAL, FRANKLY, IS CONVERSATION.

-- IS A SPIRITED CONVERSATION.

WE'RE GOING TO START RIGHT NOW.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Cathy: THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Cathy: GLAD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

I'M GOING TO START WITH WHAT'S IN THE NEWS.

RECENT VIOLENCE AMONG A SMALL -- [ AUDIO DIFFICULTY ] >> LEADERSHIP OP THE ISSUE -- LEADERSHIP ON THE ISSUE, THERE WERE SOME KIDS WHO WERE THREATENING EACH OTHER ONLINE FROM THE SOUTH SIDE, IN BURNSVILLE, AND WE ACTUALLY BROUGHT A CIVIL NUISANCE ACTION AGAINST TWO GROUPS THAT WERE THREATENING TO FIGHT AT THE STATE FAIR.

WE WORKED WITH RAMSEY COUNTY ATTORNEY JOHN CHOI AND RAMSEY COUNTY SHERIFF JOHN FLETCHER AND MADE SURE WE BROUGHT THESE FOLKS INTO COURT.

MOST OF THEM SAID THEY'D STAY AWAY FROM THE FAIR ALTOGETHER.

BUT THE FAIR WAS VERY PEACEFUL, EVERYBODY HAD A GOOD TIME AND THERE WERE NO REPORTED INCIDENTS.

WE ALSO WORKED WITH CLERGY, WE ALSO WORKED WITH PEER ENGAGERS, AND THOSE -- ALL THOSE EFFORTS TOGETHER BROUGHT ABOUT A MORE -- A SAFE FAIR.

NOW, I THINK WE CAN REPLICATE THESE THINGS THE COMMUNITY, WHICH WE SHOULD DO.

BUT I PROPOSE A MULTIFACETED APPROACH.

LAW ENFORCEMENT, BUT ALSO COMMUNITY, ALSO OUR CLERGY ALL TO MAKE A SAFER COMMUNITY.

>> Cathy: Mr.

SCHUTZ, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS INSTANCE IF YOU'RE ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> ELL, I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN REALLY BOTHERING ME, CATHY, AND THAT IS THAT KEITH ELLISON RECENTLY CALLED MY SUPPORTERS RACIST AND BIGOTS.

AND THOSE INCLUDE MY WIFE, MY CHILDREN, MY FRIENDS AND MY 93-YEAR-OLD MOTHER.

AND WHEN MY 93-YEAR-OLD MOTHER SAW HIS VIDEO CLIP OF THAT, SHE WAS REALLY UPSET.

AND I THINK HE SHOULD APOLOGIZE.

PERHAPS IT WAS IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT BUT HE BASICALLY SAID, WHO'S GOING TO COME OUT AND VOTE, IS IT GOING TO BE THE RACIST AND BIGOTS, WHICH MEANS MY SUPPORTERS, OR IS IT GOING TO BE -- BECAUSE YOU CALLED -- I'VE GOT THE WHOLE QUOTE, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO PULL IT OUT.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

TO MY QUESTION FIRST.

>> CATHY, I'M NOT PLAYING THAT GAME.

HE CAN PLAY THAT GAME ALL HE WANTS.

I'M HERE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THAT THIS RACE IS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.

THIS RACE IS ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> Cathy: WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER ON.

HOWEVER, I DO WANT TO YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION.

IF YOU WERE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHAT OULD YOU DO IN THIS INSTANCE, AS WE'RE WATCHING THIS SMALL GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WREAK HAVOC IN THE TWIN CITIES?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT IT ALL STARTS WITH THE WHOLE ATTITUDE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TOWARD LAW ENFORCEMENT AND LAW AND ORDER IN GENERAL.

I HAVE THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE LARGEST LAW ENFORCEMENT ADVOCACY GROUP IN THE STATE, THE MINNESOTA POLICE AND PEACE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION.

AND WE AVE A DECIMATED POLICE FORCE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

WE HAVE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE -- BE AND A HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY WHO SIMPLY ARE NOT FRIENDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND THIS IS WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT TELLS ME.

ALL RIGHT.

THEY FEEL THEY'RE NOT SUPPORTED.

AND THEY FEEL THAT THEY'RE UNDER ATTACK ALL THE TIME.

>> Cathy: SO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS INSTANCE?

>> IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, WHAT I WOULD DO IS TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS COORDINATION AND EFFORTS.

FOR ONE THING, IF YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE DISPARATE GROUPS OUT THERE NOT COORDINATING, THAT'S AN INEFFICIENT USE OF RESOURCES.

SO I THINK YOU NEED TO BRING GROUPS TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY COMBAT THIS SITUATION.

AND -- AND, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, STATEMENTS TRYING TO PAINT THE ENTIRE SOMALI COMMUNITY WITH THE ACTIONS OF A SMALL GROUP, A GANG, PERHAPS, IS NOT PRODUCTIVE.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT PRODUCTIVE.

>> Cathy: AND YOU WOULD AGREE AS WELL?

>> OF COURSE.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

>> I'VE CLEARLY STOOD AGAINST OVERGENERALIZATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT ACTUALLY HELPS, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE, I TOLD YOU WHAT I WOULD DO.

I HAVE ORKED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND BROUGHT A SAFER COMMUNITY IN SPECIFIC INSTANCES.

I CAN GO ON AND TALK TO YOU ABOUT HOW WE HAVE SUED KIA AND00 DIE AND BROUGHT DOWN THE AUTO THEFT.

>> Cathy: I'M GOING TO DEFINITELY GET TO THAT, TOO.

>> GOOD.

>> Cathy: I DO WANT TO TALK -- THE ULK OF THE WORK OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS CIVIL LEGAL WORK AND ADVISING STATE AGENCIES, NOT CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT.

BUT THE GOVERNOR ASKED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO TAKE OVER THE MURDER CASE FROM HENNEPIN COUNTY.

AND I'M WONDERING, Mr.

SCHUTZ, SHOULD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL INTERVENE MORE FREQUENTLY IN LOCAL CASES?

>> WELL, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS LIMITED IN HIS ABILITY TO INTERVENE IN LOCAL CASES.

THE ONLY WAY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN COME INTO A WHAT I WOULD CALL A TYPICAL FELONY CASE LIKE A MURDER OR RAPE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THERE ARE ONLY TWO CIRCUMSTANCES, ONE IF HE IS INVITED IN BY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND THE SECOND IS IF THE GOVERNOR DIRECTS OR ORDERS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO TAKE OVER A CASE.

AND, SO, THE KEY ISSUE HERE IS HAVING GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY'RE RESOURCE CONSTRAINED IN A CASE THAT THEY CAN COME TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE CAN COME IN AND HELP.

AND THERE MAY BE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE IN HENNEPIN COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, MY VIEW OF LAW ENFORCEMENT IS THE OPPOSITE OF MARY MORIARTY'S.

I THINK THAT SHE'S SOFT ON CRIME.

AND IF THERE'S A SUCCESSOR TO HER IN THAT OFFICE WHO SHARES HER VIEW, AND I THINK THEY'RE NOT BEING EFFECTIVE AND AGGRESSIVE IN PROSECUTING SOME CASES, I WILL ASK WHOEVER'S GOVERNOR TO ALLOW ME TO COME IN ON OCCASIONS TO DO THAT.

>> Cathy: NOW, YOU WERE A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS, I BELIEVE, RIGHT?

>> WELL, HERE'S THE THING.

THE 87 COUNTIES OF MINNESOTA, THE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THEIR COUNTY ATTORNEY, AND, SO, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS THEIR OWN ELECTION CERTIFICATE, THEIR OWN LEGITIMACY.

SO I THINK THAT YOU OUGHT TO USE THE POWER TO ASK THE GOVERNOR TO COME INTO A CASE ONLY VERY ADVISEDLY.

NOW IN THE McKEEVER CASE, LOOK, I HAD FAMILY MEMBERS, CHURCH MEMBERS, COMING TO SAY, THIS MAN -- THESE PEOPLE MURDERED OUR DAUGHTER, WE NEED YOU TO DO SOMETHING.

SO I DID.

WENT TO THE GOVERNOR, SAID, LOOK, I NEED THAT CASE.

AND WE SENT THE MAIN ORGANIZER TO PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

AND OTHERS GOT LENGTHY PRISON TERMS AS WELL.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING I WOULD NEVER DO.

BUT I THINK THAT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE STRONG RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE COUNTIES.

CATHY, LET ME POINT OUT, WHEN I GOT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, WE HAD ONE AND A HALF FULL-TIME EQUIVALENT PEOPLE DOING PROSECUTION.

NOW WE GOT 12.

I'VE LED THE PROSECUTION OVER 169 CONVICTIONS AND WE'RE DOING MORE EVERY DAY.

IN FACT, I LED A CONVICTION DOWN IN WINONA WHERE A TEACHER WAS CONVICTED OF SEXUALLY ASSAULTING THREE KIDS AND OF COURSE I LED THE CASE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO MURDERED GEORGE FLOYD AND SUCCESSFULLY GOT CONVICTIONS THERE.

>> Cathy: SAY, CAN WE TALK ABOUT METRO SURGE?

>> YES, PLEASE.

>> Cathy: RON SCHUTZ, AN YOU CRITIQUE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S PERFORMANCE DURING METRO SURGE?

>> I THINK THAT KEITH ELLISON FAILED IN HIS ROLE BY NOT ASKING FOR MORE CALM IN METRO SURGE.

THERE IS A FINE LINE BETWEEN EXERCISING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, EVEN AGGRESIVELY EXERCISING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, AND STEPPING OVER THE LINE AND ENGAGING IN PHYSICAL CONFRONTATIONAL BEHAVIOR WITH THE I.C.E.

OFFICERS.

AND THAT LINE, I THINK, WAS CROSSED REPEATEDLY.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL ELLISON URGED PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

I WOULD NOT ACCUSE HIM OF THAT.

BUT I THINK THAT HE COULD HAVE DONE MORE URGING PEOPLE NOT TO CROSS THAT LINE AND HAVE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATIONS ITH THE I.C.E.

OFFICERS.

SCREAM AT THEM, YELL AT THEM, EXERCISE YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, BUT NOWHERE -- BUT KNOW WHERE TO DRAW THE LINE.

AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THE RECORD, YOU CAN LOOK AT GOVERNOR WALZ, YOU CAN LOOK AT ATTORNEY GENERAL ELLISON, THINK NEVER SAID THAT, THEY NEVER SAID, DON'T STEP OVER THAT LINE AND ENGAGE IN PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION.

>> Cathy: CRITIQUE YOUR PERFORMANCE.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD, SAID HE WANTED RETRIBUTION AND RECKONING ON MINNESOTA, HE REPEATED THE FALSE CLAIM THAT HE WON MINNESOTA THREE TIMES, AND OF COURSE, HE DIDN'T.

THEN HE SENT IN THE LARGEST DEPLOYMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES OF ARMED MASKED AGENTS TO THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

SO, I DID WHAT ANY REASONABLE ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULD DO.

I SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR VIOLATING OUR TENTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

I TOOK THEM TO COURT, WE ARE STILL PURSUING HAT LITIGATION.

BUT, CATHY, I DIDN'T STOP THERE.

I ENGAGED JD VANCE, I ACTUALLY SUGGEST HIM OUT, WENT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT, SAID, MR.

VICE PRESIDENT, YOU ARE UNDER MISTAKEN IMPRESSION IF YOU THINK WE'RE NOT FULFILLING OUR LEGAL OBLIGATIONS REGARDING IMMIGRATION.

I WENT TO TOM HOLEMAN AND ACTUALLY HAD A PRETTY FRUITFUL WITH HIM, HE SAID, LOOK, I KNOW WE GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE.

AND I SAID, THE SOONER THE BETTER.

WE'VE HAD ALEX PRETTI SHOT DOWN AND KILLED, WE HAD RENEE GOOD KID, WE HAD HULE JOE SOLAS SOLAS SHOT, TOO.

AND I COULDN'T DISAGREE WITH RON MORE.

>> Cathy: SHOULD YOU HAVE ASKED FOR CALM, TO Mr.

SCHUTZ POINT, SHOULD YOU HAVE TAKEN THE BULLTY PULPIT?

>> I ASKED FOR THE CONSTITUTION TO BE OBSERVED.

I ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO OBEY THE LAW, THAT'S WHAT I DID.

LOOK, SOMEHOW IT'S AMAZING THAT RON, THE ONLY THING HE THINKS THAT WENT WRONG IS THAT PEOPLE PROTESTED.

THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTEST.

>> AND I SAID THEY HAVE -- THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTEST.

BUT THINK DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO ENGAGE IN PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION.

AND THEY CROSSED THE LINE AND YOU NEVER ASKED FOR CALM.

>> SO LET ME JUST E CLEAR HERE.

MINNESOTANS WERE SO TERRIFIED THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO WORK.

WE HAD TO SET UP A WHOLE NETWORK TO HELP BRING FOOD TO PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE.

SMALL BUSINESSES WENT OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE WORKERS COULD NOT COME TO WORK.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TO BLAME IN THIS.

THAT'S WHY I SUED HEM.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE SUING THEM RIGHT NOW.

>> Cathy: IF YOU WERE ATTORNEY GENERAL DURING THIS TIME, WOULD YOU HAVE SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> I WANT TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT -- BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO ASK IT -- WHAT I DID AFTER THE ALEX RETTI SHOOTING.

>> NOT MUCH.

>> I ISSUED A PUBLIC STATEMENT, IT'S ON MY WEBSITE, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK IT UP.

I ISSUED A PUBLIC STATEMENT CALLING FOR A JOINT FEDERAL AND STATE INVESTIGATION OF THOSE KILLINGS.

AND I DID THAT WITHIN DAYS AFTERWARDS AND I GOT TO TELL YOU, THAT DID NOT MAKE MY POPULAR IN CERTAIN CIRCLES IN WASHINGTON, D.C., BUT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND F THE EVIDENCE OUT OF THOSE INVESTIGATIONS LEADS TO PROOF THAT THERE SHOULD BE PROSECUTIONS, THEY HOULD BE PROSECUTED.

I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT.

I'M THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE WHO'S ACTUALLY STOOD BEFORE JURIES AND PROSECUTED PEOPLE ERSONALLY FROM BEGINNING TO END AND PUT THEM IN JAIL.

I DID THAT AS A MILITARY PROSECUTOR.

>> SO, LOOK, ANYBODY IN HENNEPIN COUNTY, IN MINNESOTA, KNOWS THAT KEITH ELLISON IS A TRIAL LAWYER AND TRIED MANY -- >> I'VE TALKED TO -- LET ME TELL YOU.

THE REVIEWS ARE NOT GOOD.

THEY'RE NOT GOOD.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO DROP INTO THAT LITTLE GAME.

YEAH, I WAS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> WELL, I WAS A CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER, I PICKED MANY JURIES, RON, AND PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TRY TO BERATE MY SERVICE, IF YOU WANT.

>> I'M NOT BERATING YOUR SERVICE.

I'M A TRIAL LAWYER, YOU'RE A POLITICIAN.

>> LET ME JUST SAY THIS, RON.

THE BOTTOM LINE S, IN OPERATION METRO SURGE, THIS IS WHERE THIS QUESTION STARTED, I STOOD UP FOR MINNESOTANS.

I STOOD UP FOR THE VICTIMS, PRETTI AND GOOD AND SOSA SEW LEASE AND YOU SENT OUT A PIECE OF PAPER.

I TALKED TO PEOPLE LIKE HOLEMAN AND JD VANCE, WE WERE, IN FACT, FOLLOWING THE LAW.

YOU STINT OUT A PAPER.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US S NIGHT AND DAY.

>> YOU'RE A SITTING ELECTED OFFICIAL.

I'M A CIVILIAN.

HOLEMAN IS NOT GOING TO CAULK TALK TO ME.

I RELEASED A PRESSLEY HE I RELEASED A PRESSLEY PRESS PRES RELEASE.

>> YOU ERE THE CHAIR FOR THE CENTER OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

YOU WERE PROMINENT REPUBLICAN VOICE.

IF YOU WOULD HAVE LIFTED YOUR VOICE AND SAID, DO NOT SEEK RETRIBUTION AND RECKONING AGAINST MY STATE, I THINK SOMEONE WOULD HAVE LISTENED.

YOU DIDN'T DO THAT.

WHICH IS A SHAME.

>> I CALLED FOR THE JOINT FEDERAL AND STATE INVESTIGATION AT THAT POINT OF THOSE SHOOTINGS.

>> AND THEY'RE IGNORING YOU TO THIS DAY.

>> I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO INVESTIGATE THOSE CASES.

>> WELL, I AM INVESTIGATING THOSE CASES, LIKE I INVESTIGATED THE FLOYD CASE.

>> Cathy: AND THAT'S STILL IN LITIGATION.

ALL RIGHT.

HEY, WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WHEN WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS, WE INTERRUPT EVERY SO OFTEN, WE HAVE THESE LIGHTNING ROUNDS.

KIND OF FUN QUESTIONS THAT ARE SHORT, OKAY.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.

>> SURE.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

LIGHTNING ROUND.

MY LAWYER FRIENDS SAY, WHEN YOU'RE IN COURT, AND YOU'RE LITIGATING, YOU'RE BEFORE A JUDGE, ATTORNEYS USUALLY HAVE A PERSONALITY, WHAT'S YOUR COURTROOM PERSONALITY?

>> INTENSE AND AGGRESSIVE.

>> EFFECTIVE.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

YOU GO -- YOU'VE BEEN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ALL DAY LONG.

WHAT'S YOUR GO-TO LATE-NIGHT SNACK WHEN YOU GET HOME?

>> OOH, WHATEVER MY WIFE, MONICA, HAS IN THE REFRIGERATOR, SHE'S ALWAYS READY FOR SOMETHING, I LOVE THAT LADY, SHE'S LOOKING OUT FOR ME ALL THE TIME.

>> Cathy: LATE-NIGHT SNACK AFTER YOU GET DONE CAMPAIGNING?

>> I TRY TO AVOID LATE-NIGHT SNACKS.

>> Cathy: IF YOU WERE NOT A LAWYER, WHAT OTHER CAREER PATH WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN CHOSEN?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE -- I MIGHT HAVE GONE TO BUSINESS SCHOOL.

I MEAN, I RAN A BIG LAW FIRM, AND I'VE ALWAYS HAD KIND OF A BUSINESS BENT, I'VE REPRESENTED A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESSES.

>> Cathy: SO MAYBE BUSINESS.

>> LIKE DEALING WITH PEOPLE.

AND I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS AS OPPOSED TO LAW.

>> Cathy: OTHER CAREER PATH?

>> I DID GRADUATE WORK IN ECONOMICS, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY MY SERVICE AS ATTORNEY GENERAL AND MY SERVICE AS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS IS ABOUT AFFORDING YOUR LIFE.

>> Cathy: SO YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ECON -- >> I WOULD HAVE WORKED ON MAKING SURE WE HAVE A FAIR ECONOMY, MAYBE I WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ECONOMIST.

>> Cathy: ECON PROFESSOR.

>> WELL, MAYBE.

BUT I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE OF A HANDS-ON GUY, MAKING URE WORKERS GOT THE WORK THEY NEED AND PEOPLE GET THE HOUSING THEY NEED.

>> Cathy: I'M GOING LET YOU ASK A QUESTION OF EACH OTHER.

WOULD YOU PLEASE ASK A QUESTION OF YOUR OPPONENT?

>> SO, RON, AFTER I WORKED HARD TO GET MAP ACT PASSED THROUGH THE STATE LEGISLATURE, WHICH IS A BILL THAT LENGTHENS SENTENCES FOR FRAUDSTERS, THAT GOT 18 MORE NEW PEOPLE TO HELP WORK ON FRAUD AND PROSECUTION, AND GAVE US MORE AUTHORITY TO GO BACK AND GET RESTITUTION, WHY DID YOU OPPOSE THE BILL WHICH REPUBLICANS EVEN VOTED FOR?

>> BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE IN REWARDING FAILURE.

THE MOST RECENT REPORT BY THE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL CAME OUT JULY 1, 2026, GAVE, IN ESSENCE, A D MINUS, IN HE IN H ESSENCE, I HAVE A COPY, TOO.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> I'M GLAD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> WE CAN QUOTE.

BUT IT ONLY GOT CONDITIONALLY -- >> Cathy: HANG ON.

>> GLAD WE'RE TALKING.

>> -- RECERTIFIED.

THEY SAID ONE OF THE REASONS THEY WEREN'T COMPLYING WITH THE FEDERAL LAW AND REGULATIONS, INCLUDING, THIS IS INCREDIBLE, MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FEDERAL GRANT MONEY.

>> OKAY.

SO, CATHY.

>> Cathy: GO AHEAD.

>> THE WORD "STAFFING" IS RIGHT THERE.

>> Cathy: THAT'S TRUE.

>> THE WORD STAFFING, BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE.

SO WHAT I DID -- WHAT DID I DO?

I GOT THE PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: THE 18 STAFFERS.

>> RIGHT THERE, STAFFING.

AND I WENT AND GOT 'EM.

AND RON TRIED TO STOP IT.

>> THIS IS A D MINUS.

>> THERE'S NO LETTER GRADE ON HERE.

YOU'RE LYING TO THE PEOPLE.

LOOK, IF YOU'RE LISTENING TO THIS SHOW, HE'S TRYING TO AY THERE'S SOME D MINUS.

THERE'S NO LETTER GRADE.

RON SCHUTZ JUST LIED TO YOU FOLKS.

>> THIS LETTER RIGHT HERE, THIS ONE, THIS ONE.

>> Cathy: SO YOU GOT THAT PASSED.

>> READ THAT.

READ THAT.

>> Cathy: HANG ON, FOLKS.

>> READ THIS.

READ THIS PART.

>> Cathy: E'RE ON TV, SO ACTUALLY, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO HERE, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE FACT THAT -- >> MINNESOTA IS USES TS RESOURCES EFFECTIVELY TO INVESTIGATE CASES OF POSSIBLE FRAUD IN MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: I WILL SAY THIS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY YOU WERE TOO SLOW OUT OF THE GATE TO PROSECUTE THESE FOLKS.

>> THEY'RE WRONG.

>> Cathy: TOO SLOW.

>> IT'S SIMPLY INCORRECT, YEAH.

>> Cathy: THIS IS BEFORE THE 18 STAFFERS WERE HIRED, THOUGH.

>> WELL, THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO, HERE'S THE THING.

RON JUST TOLD EVERYBODY THAT I CANNOT PROSECUTE ANY CASES OTHER THAN MEDICAID FRAUD UNLESS THE COUNTY PULLS ME N OR THE GOVERNOR APPOINTS ME THE CASE.

SO, WHEN IT COMES TO CASES LIKE FEEDING OUR FUTURE, I DON'T HAVE ANY LEGAL AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE THAT CASE.

>> Cathy: I SEE.

>> SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN?

>> Cathy: YEAH.

>> SO WHAT DID WE DO?

WE WORKED WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS -- >> YOU CAN PROSECUTE THOSE CASES.

>> LET ME FINISH.

>> Cathy: HANG ON.

I WANT TO HEAR THIS.

>> WE WORKED WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GOT THE SEARCH WARRANTS ISSUED, THAT THE INDICTMENTS ISSUED AND THAT THE CONVICTIONS OCCURRED.

>> Cathy: SO YOU'RE KIND OF SAYING YOUR HANDS WERE TIED AT THE BEGINNING?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY TIED.

YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE JURISDICTION TO FILE A CRIMINAL LAWSUIT.

>> Cathy: GOT T. I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

>> HE HAD JURISDICTION IN MANY OF THOSE CASES BECAUSE THEY INVOLVE -- WELL, HE HAS JURISDICTION OVER EDICAID FRAUD CASES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> HE HAS JURISDICTION OVER MEDICAID FRAUD CASES AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN MINNESOTA IS THE PRIMARY REGULATORY AUTHORITY FOR NONPROFITS, AND MANY OF THESE GROUPS INVOLVE, THESE COMPANIES THAT WERE SET UP, WERE NONPROFITS AND HE COULD HAVE SHUT THOSE NONPROFITS DOWN.

>> WE DID SHUT THEM DOWN, RON.

>> WELL, NOT SOON ENOUGH.

>> RON, THEY'RE HUT DOWN.

>> YOU SAT IN A MEETING WITH THOSE FRAUDSTERS -- >> Cathy: ONE AT A TIME.

>> -- AND THEN YOU TOOK CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PEOPLE THAT YOU HAD TO GIVE BACK.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR TELLING EVERYBODY THAT THEY WERE GIVEN BACK, RON.

>> WELL, FOUR YEARS LATER.

>> BECAUSE YOU -- >> FOUR YEARS LATER.

>> Cathy: ONE AT A TIME.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> FOUR YEARS LATER.

>> Cathy: HANG ON.

>> RON -- >> FOUR YEARS LATER.

FOUR YEARS LATER.

>> Cathy: HANG ONE, ONE AT A TIME.

>> YOU STILL HAVE CAMPAIGN DONATIONS FROM BASHIER WHO DEFRAUDED THE GOVERNMENT FOR $1.6 MILLION AND THEY GAVE YOU MONEY.

HAVE YOU GIVEN THOSE CAMPAIGN -- >> Cathy: IS THAT TRUE?

>> YEAH, IT'S TRUE.

>> THEY HAVE BEEN SUPPORTERS OF MINE.

>> YEAH, YEAH, AND THEY GOT HIT WITH -- SUED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT $1.6 MILLION.

>> AND MADE NO ADMISSION -- >> RON, WILL YOU GIVE THE MONEY BACK?

>> THEY MADE NO ADMISSIONS -- >> RON -- >> -- OF GUILT.

STOP, STOP, STOP, IT'S A CIVIL -- >> Cathy: WE'RE GETTING IN THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT, GENTLEMEN.

>> THE FEEDING THE FUTURE PEOPLE WENT TO JAIL.

>> YOU THINK SOMEBODY GIVES BACK $1.6 MILLION FOR NOTHING?

NO EXPOSURE THANK YOU.

I'LL LET THAT SIT RIGHT THERE.

>> Cathy: WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK YOUR OPPONENT A QUESTION?

>> YEAH, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO APOLOGIZE FOR MAKING THE COMMENT THAT ALL MY SUPPORTERS ARE RACISTS AND BIGOTS, I ASKED THEY BEGINNING, I WANT AN OWN.

>> Cathy: CAN YOU GIVE FOLKS AN IDEA FOR WHAT'S HAPPENING FOR FOLKS WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, YOUR PERCEPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED.

>> ON THE 22nd OF SEPTEMBER, HE WAS FILMED ON VIDEO AT THE EVENT AT THE MINNEAPOLIS CONVENTION CENTER AND HE GOES ON, TALKS ABOUT A POLL RESULT, SAYS, MY OPPONENT'S AHEAD, HE'S BEATING ME BY TWO POINTS.

AND THEN HE SAYS, THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A BASE ELECTION.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT A BASE ELECTION IS?

THAT MEANS WHOEVER GETS THEIR BASE OUT, THAT'S WHO'S GOING TO WIN.

NOW IS THE BASE OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN FREEDOM, JUSTICE, COMPASSION AND MERCY, THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE QUALITY OF HUMAN BEINGS AND THE DIGNITY OF HUMAN BEINGS SHOW UP TO VOTE OR WILL THE BIGOTS AND RACISTS SHOW P AND VOTE?

>> Cathy: AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL KEITH ELLISON IS CALLING -- >> HOW CAN YOU INTERPRET THAT OTHERWISE THAN GOING AFTER MY PEOPLE.

>> RON, RON, RON -- >> YOU CAN APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO BUY INTO YOUR DELIBERATE MISCONSTRUCTION OF WHAT I SAID.

>> I READ IT EXACTLY.

>> RON.

YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT, I'M ASKING FOR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT FREEDOM, JUSTICE, MERCY TO SEW UP TO VOTE.

>> YOU CALLED ANYBODY WHO'S NOT VOTING FOR OU A RACIST AND A BIGOT, KEITH, YOU DID IT, YOU CAN'T DENY IT.

>> RON, LET ME TELL YOU, MAN, ANY SENSIBLE PERSON KNOWS THAT YOU'RE MISCONSTRUING -- >> WHY ARE YOU USING THE TERMS RACISTS AND BIG RACISTS AND BI BIGOTS IN TERMS F THIS ENDORSEMENT?

I AM NOT SEEKING THE ENDORSEMENT OF DONALD TRUMP.

>> Cathy: HANG ON, HANG ON, GENTLEMEN.

>> RON.

>> Cathy: IF THE PRESIDENT -- >> COME ON.

>> Cathy: THE PRESIDENT'S TALKING ABOUT COMING TO MINNESOTA NEXT WEEK.

IF HE DOES, IF HE INVITES YOU ON STAGE WITH HIM, WOULD YOU ACCEPT?

>> I WILL ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BUT FIRST... YOU'VE GOT TO PROMISE ME YOU'RE GOING TO THE ANTI-SYSTEM QUITE COMING TO MINNESOTA NEXT WEEK, ARE YOU GOING TO PAL AROUND WITH HIM.

THE ANSWER O YOUR QUESTION IS NO.

>> Cathy: WOULD YOU LIKE O ANSWER HIS QUESTION?

>> LOOK, I'VE GOT A FULL SCHEDULE.

I DON'T KNOW WHO HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

>> Cathy: I HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE I WANT TO ASK YOU ALL.

I'VE GOT TO MOVE ON.

THERE ARE A LOT OF MINNESOTANS WATCHING THIS.

>> SURE.

>> Cathy: AND Y'ALL -- THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS IG SIGNIFICANT AUTHORITY OVER -- HAS SIGNIFICANT AUTHORITY OVER HEALTHCARE ARKET IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

THERE ARE 400,000 MINNESOTANS WHO FOUND OUT THAT THEIR MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS WON'T BE AVAILABLE NEXT YEAR.

I UNDERSTAND MEDICARE'S A FEDERAL PROGRAM, I GET THAT, BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE KIND OF MARKET CONTRAPTION.

>> FORCE A COMPANY TO OFFER A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLAN.

YEAH, MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLAN.

I MEAN, THEY ARE RESPONDING TO MARKET FORCES.

I DON'T THINK IT'S WITHIN THE POWER OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TO SAY, YOU MUST OFFER THIS GOOD OR SERVICE.

UNLESS I'M MISSING SOMETHING.

I DON'T THINK IT'S WITHIN THE POWER OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> Cathy: ANYTHING?

>> YEAH, I DISAGREE WITH RON.

>> YOU CAN ORDER THEM TO OFFER THOSE PLANS?

>> RON, YOU'VE BEEN INTERRUPTING A LOT.

I'M TRYING TO ANSWER CATHY'S QUESTION.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS A LOT OF POWER TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING.

WHEN WE NEGOTIATED THE OVERSIGHT AGREEMENT BETWEEN NORTH MEMORIAL AND SANFORD, WE MADE SURE THAT ACCESS STAYED WHERE IT WAS IN ALL OF OUR NEGOTIATIONS.

THE QUESTION IS, YOU GOT TO MAINTAIN OR EXPAND ACCESS.

THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON AND HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL DOING.

WE'VE WORKED ON MEDICAL BILLING.

AND MADE SURE THAT THAT HAS BEEN DONE FAIR.

WE WORKED ON MEDICAL DEBT.

WE WORKED N LOWERING PRESCRIPTION DRUG PRICES.

I'M AS WORRIED ABOUT THIS AND ALL OF THE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL TYPE CUTS AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE VERY VERY SERIOUS.

AND, RON, HE DID SAY HE WANTED TO KNOW IF DONALD TRUMP WOPTD TO PLAY A ROLE IN THIS RACE, WHICH IS CLEARLY A REQUEST FOR AN ENDORSEMENT.

WANTED TO PLAY A ROLE.

AND HE ALSO SAID THAT DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T DO NYTHING WRONG.

>> I NEVER AID ANY SUCH THING.

>> YOU LSO SAID, I DON'T THINK DONE AL TRUMP WOULD DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

>> LOOK AT THE TAPE.

NEVER SAID IT.

>> BUT LET ME GET BACK TO THE POINT.

RON ALSO SAID -- >> CAN YOU ORDER A COMPANY TO PROVIDE MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS?

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

NO, YOU CANNOT ORDER A COMPANY TO PROVIDE A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLAN.

>> WE CAN REQUIRE THAT COMPANIES ABIDE Y THE LAW AND AS NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT BENEFIT FROM TAX-EXEMPT STATUS, WE CAN USE OUR AUTHORITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN TO EXTEND ACCESS AND WE DO IT EVERY DAY, RORNTION AND IF YOU DON'T THINK WE CAN DO T MAYBE THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> ARE YOU SAYING YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO SAY TO A COMPANY, YOU MUST PROVIDE MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLAN?

YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, RON?

YOU HAVE A LACK OF IMAGINATION AND CERTAINLY A LACK OF WILL POWER.

>> OH, I DO NOT HAVE A LACK OF IMAGINATION OR WILL POWER, TRUST ME, MY FRIEND.

>> I DON'T.

I THINK CREATIVELY ABOUT THESE THINGS.

>> Cathy: SAY, I'VE GOT TWO MINUTES LEFT.

SO, ATTORNEY GENERALS IN THE PAST, WE'VE COVERED Y'ALL HAVE TAKEN ON TOBACCO COMPANIES AND OPIOID MANUFACTURERS.

>> YUP.

HAD >> Cathy: FINANCIAL FRAUD AND THE LIKE.

IF YOU ELECTED ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHAT INDUSTRY WOULD FACE THE MOST SCRUTINY UNDER YOUR ADMINISTRATION?

>> WHOSE LAW FIRM SUED THE TOBACCO COMPANIES?

IT WAS ROBBINS KAPLAN, MY LAW FIRM.

>> THAT WAS MIKE CIRESI WHO SUPPORTS ME.

>> WAIT.

AND WHICH LAW FIRM FILED THE CASES AGAINST THE OPIOIDS CASE WHEN I WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE FIRM, SIGNED OFF ON THAT, AS A MEMBER OF OUR EXECUTIVE BOARD, SUING THE OPIOID COMPANIES.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM SUING BAD ACTORS.

I'M THE ONLY NE, AGAIN, IN THIS RACE THAT HAS STOOD UP BEFORE JURIES, PERMANENTLY TRIED CASES AGAINST MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND WON TENS AND TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT INDUSTRY -- >> I HAVE NO PROBLEM TAKING ON BAD ACTORS.

>> Cathy: WHAT INDUSTRY WOULD YOU FOCUS ON IF YOU'RE ELECTED TO EXAMINE?

>> ANY INDUSTRY THAT'S HARMING MINNESOTANS.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

RE-ELECTED, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

>> OH -- >> Cathy: ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

SO, FIRST OF ALL, RON HAS 174 CONFLICTS OF INTEREST THAT HE HAS NOT MENTIONED YET.

HE ACTUALLY REPRESENTS -- [ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> Cathy: I REALLY WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD MORE TIME ON THIS.

GO AHEAD.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE ELECTED TO ANOTHER TERM?

>> I WOULD CONTINUE TO SUE THOSE TOBACCO COMPANIES WHICH RON PROFITS PROFITS FROM, HEOINES A LOT OF PHILIP MORRIS.

ELI LILLY, WHICH RON AGAIN HOLDS VAST AMOUNTS OF.

>> SO DOES THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

THEY OWN ABOUT $500 MILLION WORTH OF THAT STOCK.

>> 174 REASONS WHY PEOPLE SHOULD NOT VOTE FOR YOU.

>> WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE, KEITH.

>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

SO, GENTLEMEN, I THINK I HAVE TIME TO JUST SAY THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: FOR EING HERE WITH US.

WE APPRECIATE T.

>> THANK YOU, RON.

IT'S BEEN A SPIRITED CONVERSATION.

>> YOU WANTED A SPIRITED DEBATE, CATHY.

DID WE DELIVER A SPIRITED DEBATE?

>> Cathy: SO FOLKS WANT MORE INFORMATION, WHERE'S YOUR WEBSITE?

>> WWW.RONFORMNAG.COM.

>> I ASK FOR YOUR VOTE, COME ON OUT, NOVEMBER 3rd, KEITHELLISON.ORG, LET'S WIN THIS THING.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH IME, FRIENDS, FOR SHOW-ENDING MUSIC.