>> Hi, I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

And in this episode, I sit down with Humble the Poet, a rapper and poet who has become a cultural influencer with his unique blend of wisdom and creativity.

He explores the power of self-love and overcoming outdated beliefs.

We discuss how to question relationship sparks, create healthy habits, and embrace discomfort for personal growth.

Get ready to unlock your potential and attract authentic love into your life.

I'm so glad that you're here today.

Now let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪♪ >> I discovered that if I love -- You don't find love.

You don't win love.

You don't earn love.

You can only realize love.

So, going back to analogies, love is a breeze.

The only work you have to do is opening your sails.

And if you can't open your sails to receive love, it doesn't matter how many people love you.

It doesn't matter.

You can have somebody worshiping the ground you walk on.

You can't receive it, you can't receive it.

So, that was one of the biggest lessons, which was, you know, realizing that, "Oh, I don't have to do or be anything to have love in my life.

I have to do the work to receive the love that's literally -- I'm being flooded and surrounded by it."

And I think that was a big thing, where instead of me thinking, "Oh, I'm not with the right person.

I just need another person.

I need another person."

It's like, "No, you have to address your root issues, and if you don't address your root issues, you're going to have this problem forever."

>> What were your main root issues for you?

>> My main root issues?

Insecurity unaddressed, not addressing racism I had growing up, so now overcompensating, trying to be as desirable as possible and only being able to measure my desirability through how many women were sliding in my DMs.

Value, who validates me, you know?

But then realizing that, "Okay, there's so many places I'm in the in club."

The issue isn't who accepts me, who invites me places.

It's how I feel about myself.

And so I think, for me, it's working with myself, having the relationship with myself, keeping promises to myself, voluntarily doing hard things, like sitting in the ice, taking cold showers.

And then, at the same time, choosing love over being likable.

>> What's that mean?

What's the difference between being loved over likable?

>> Being likable is not disappointing anybody.

Being likable is being accepted by everybody.

Being likable is feeling included.

Love is being disagreeable.

Love is saying no.

Love is standing up for yourself.

So love is risking being likable.

You know, if you cross -- Love is having boundaries, telling you you're crossing -- "These are my boundaries.

You have to respect them."

And not being afraid of being like, "Oh, that's going to reject a romantic partner or a friend or a business opportunity because I have rules and I have a code and I have boundaries."

So I think these are a lot of things, because so often, we feel like we're in competition, the first thing we'll do is we'll reduce our boundaries to be more accepted.

Like, "I'll work around Lewis' schedule, whatever he needs, just so he'll hang out with me."

That's me reducing my boundaries to be liked.

>> Right.

>> But now what I'm doing is, I'm chasing self-esteem and I'm reducing my self-respect.

But the more self-respect I focus on, the less self-esteem I need.

And we all know those people that don't care to impress anybody, and then we want their acceptance even more.

>> Right, right.

>> So, I think, for me, that's been a really big one, which is like, okay, I have been outsourcing when I feel alone.

I've been outsourcing that, not understanding that loneliness is not a circumstance, it's a feeling, because what's the difference between loneliness and solitude?

Solitude -- When you're by yourself, solitude is what it feels like when it's rewarding.

Loneliness is what it feels like when it's a punishment.

What's the difference?

When I enjoy my own company.

>> Yeah.

Why do you think so many people don't enjoy their own company?

>> Because we have spent so much time understanding ourselves in relation to everybody else.

And I think, you know, my parents grew up in a village, so I think, for me, it hits closer to home.

It's not like multiple generations ago.

My parents grew up in a village of 50 people, max.

What everybody in the village said about them mattered.

It probably directly impacted their actual survival.

>> Right.

>> So they were very mindful of like, "What will people think?

What will people think?"

That's not as relevant in a major city, but that stuff's still etched in our DNA.

It's like it's old software.

>> It's survival software.

>> Survival software that doesn't serve us in these environments.

And I think, from that standpoint, that's why we care.

And I think, on top of that, you know, understanding, like, okay, I told Lewis the story, but then, while I'm telling him the story, I can see his eyes gloss over.

Those are the subtle things that we used to think about.

"Do people like me?

Do people not?"

Now there's a number attached to it.

"I posted a picture.

I got this many likes, this many comments.

Oh, then I posted another picture with a Lamborghini and I got this -- I should do more of that."

You know, and I think we're getting these subtle pushes and pulls by every -- all these different platforms and societal kind of tools that tell us, "This is who you need to be to gain more acceptance."

And we're not doing it to feel better.

We're doing it to feel less anxious, because we have this constant anxiety of we're going to be rejected, we're going to be pushed out.

And I think that's -- You know, our environments have evolved quicker than our bodies.

>> Right.

>> So it's old software on the phone that we can't delete.

And we just -- The only thing we can do is be aware of it.

And I think, so, for me, that's been this journey of being like, "Okay, well, what do I -- Do I need to be a best-selling author?

Do I need to make a bunch of money?

Do I need to make sure I'm included in the cool getaways and discovery groups?

And I need to make sure I'm with the -- you know, with all the cool kids in the wellness group, and then, you know, all the other people who are looking at it from the outside see me as the cool kid?"

Like, do I need that or do I need to say, "Hey, you're waking up at 6:30 a.m. and you did it.

You're taking a cold shower and you did it.

You promised so-and-so that you were going to show up to their event and you were super-tired and you're stuck in traffic and you want to flake --" >> I mean, you showed up, yeah.

>> But you showed up because you said you were going to show up.

>> Right.

>> All of these things are dramatically more important and they're going to reveal much more love in your life for yourself.

And now you're the source of love instead of something that's thirsting and chasing love and trying to find it from everybody, from every different situation.

And I think that's been a huge situation, because I've also realized that I've had so much external validation.

And it's great.

You have the moment, and then there's a day after.

>> Right.

>> There's a day after the one-night stand.

There's a day after the award.

There's a day after having an event where you're the center of attention.

And then what, you know?

There's a day after getting recognized on the street.

There's a day after all of these external things.

You just want more.

It just leads to you wanting more.

They're delicious, but they're not nutritious.

And I think, for me, that's been really the awareness of it.

In the last chapter of this book, I specifically say, "Look, all this book is, is me explaining the difference between French fries and broccoli.

That's all I'm doing.

And while I'm writing this book, I'm eating French fries and broccoli."

>> Right.

>> I'm not better than anybody else.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> And I'm saying maybe there's a world where that plate can have French fries and broccoli in it and we can have a little bit of both, recognizing that one is way more delicious than the other, but one is way more nutritious than the other.

And when we know the differences, that'll help us make better decisions.

And here's why we were fooled to believe certain things -- because the most exciting couples we've ever seen on TV and in the movies are going to be dysfunctional.

They have to be dysfunctional.

You know, when you're in a good relationship, it's probably not worth filming, because it's not the most eventful.

There's not super highs, super lows.

I have a friend who produces reality shows, and they just produced somebody's wedding on a reality show.

And it's a happy couple, and she goes, "I had to figure out how to make it dramatic without making it toxic."

So, I'm like, "So, what did you do?

She goes, "Well, we didn't force them to fight.

All we did was, we made -- Everything they ordered for the wedding, we made it all get lost."

>> Oh, my gosh, there had to be some frustration.

>> Had to be drama, but at least they didn't allow it to be between the people.

They're just like, "Oh, you ordered your wedding dress from this country?

We sent it to the wrong location."

>> Oh, man.

>> So now the episode will be about chasing that.

So we have to realize that we've been socialized to think that our relationships have to have drama because drama makes for good television or good movies.

But relationships should be peaceful and uneventful.

>> Peaceful, loving.

>> Yeah.

>> Kind.

>> And which makes us -- which should make us question this idea of the spark.

Everyone's chasing the spark.

And there's that great book "Attached" that says, "We're not saying soul mates don't exist.

We're saying you probably passed your soul mate because you thought they were boring."

>> Mm-hmm.

That's a good one.

>> And there are studies that prove that the spark isn't something that many long-term couples ever had.

>> And, also, you hear from a lot of therapists saying like, "If you feel that exciting spark when you meet someone, run."

>> Yes.

It's your fight or flight.

>> Right.

It's like, run away, because there's probably some trauma bonding or some type of thing that you're needing that this person might have or may not have.

>> They remind you of your earliest trauma, and we all choose nostalgia over health.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, if it's familiar, we're going to choose that more than we're going to choose than what's good for us.

>> Yeah.

>> And we all do that.

Whether it's a sugary cereal that we grew up with or having people, because in our households when we were younger, we internalized everything like it was our fault.

If our parents had a bad day at work and came home and were in crabby moods, we didn't know the context as to why they were that way.

We thought it was our fault.

So then we -- A lot of us made earning love our default.

So we find ourselves attracted to people who make us feel like we have to earn our love.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And then, if it's easy, we don't want it.

I saw a funny video today of a guy explaining all his green flags, and then another dude in the back had a big red flag.

And the girl was like, "I gotta go," and she chased after the guy with red flags.

>> So funny.

>> And it's making fun of this idea, but we've been conditioned to think we have to earn it.

But love isn't something you earn.

>> Why is that?

Why do we go out -- Why do certain people go after individuals with all the red flags, trying to earn or change them or be deserving of that person?

Why is that?

>> I think it goes back to our upbringing.

I think our first models of love were the people who raised us.

>> Yeah.

>> They weren't perfect, but we had developing brains.

We could only look at life in terms of black and white.

You know, if you're like 9 to 12, you know, your brain's not even fully developed in any capacity.

It can still develop until 25, 26.

And then we're going to look at that and be like, "Okay, I had to earn their love.

I had to earn their attention.

I had to compete with my siblings to get them to notice me.

I had to do all of that."

That becomes a coping mechanism that never gets revisited when they become an adult, and then that's what feels right.

>> And it's familiar.

It's familiar.

>> It's familiar, and it's like -- It's no different if there was two identical pairs of shoes and one was $90 and one was 100.

I can logically say, "I'm going to pick the $90 shoes because they're $10 cheaper."

But I can't logically tell you why I'm picking vanilla ice cream over chocolate.

There's no -- You know, it just feels right.

So that's when we chase people, it just feels right, but we don't know why it feels right.

It feels right because it reminds you.

It matches the flavor of the trauma that you had growing up.

>> Yeah.

>> And you're still feeling that trauma, and it feels like a safety blanket, even though it's the exact opposite.

>> And you talked about at the beginning, about learning how to open your sails and receive love.

When we chase after unhealthy relationships, whether it be friendships or societal relationships or intimate partners, do you think that we're not able to receive love, like, in a healthy way if we're chasing an unhealthy individual or -- And how do we learn to receive love in a healthy way?

>> I think receiving love means being open to it.

And I love the Peter Crone idea of creating pathways to love.

You can't say, "I love you."

You say, "You show me where love is" and you create a pathway, because chasing somebody is more so -- We're chasing things that are facsimiles of love, you know, like the bootleg version of love -- attention, affection, adoration, success, power, control, validation.

All of these -- they look and feel like love, but they're not.

And they're quick fixes.

They're fast-food versions of it.

You know, you can eat a bunch of fast food and feel full, but you're not going to feel any nutrition and you're gonna get hungry a lot quicker and you're probably not going to feel so good.

But it's addictive.

It's extremely salty.

And there's nothing wrong with any of us being addicted to that.

You know, the subtitle of this book is "Going Easy on Yourself."

I'm pointing these things out not to judge you, but to be like, "Look, we're all -- All of us can't have just one potato chip."

>> Right.

>> And if you're chasing validation from somebody and you've spent your whole life chasing validation from people, I understand how it's addictive.

And addiction often can come when the rewards are unanticipated, you know?

So when people gamble, they don't know when they're going to hit it big.

That's why they do it.

When people are in abusive relationships, they don't know when they're going to have a good day.

That's why they stick with it.

When we're on social media, we can scroll for an hour and see things that make us sad, see things that trigger our emotions, see things that make us compare ourselves to other people, you know, see things that make us feel depressed, and then, all of a sudden, a cute puppy, and we're like, "Oh, it was all worth it."

It's always these unanticipated rewards that make us feel addictive.

And I think that's the same thing with these relationships, where it's like, you know somebody is in a good place.

They're going to compliment you every morning.

They're going to say all the right things.

They're going to take care of you.

There's almost this lack of excitement that comes with it.

You know, it's not as salty and it's not a potato chip.

It's healthy.

It's nutritious.

It's broccoli.

And that's what we need in the long term.

>> Yes.

>> So, I think, as I said, my only goal is to help people become more aware of that, be like, "This is why I'm chasing this person, because they remind me of my dad" or "I'm chasing this person because they criticize me the way my mother used to criticize me."

>> Right.

>> And it feels comfortable, but if I want to have a different life, I'm going to have to do different things.

>> On a scale of 1 to 10, two years ago, when you were engaged and ending the engagement -- scale of 1 to 10, how lovable did you feel to yourself?

10 being like, totally love -- you loved yourself 100%, totally lovable, you believed you were a lovable person.

1 being unlovable.

Where were you on that scale two years ago?

>> Probably a 3.

>> 3.

>> I was probably a 3.

I think there were definitely parts of my life where I wasn't as insecure as maybe other people.

I've never really experienced imposter syndrome, for example.

Like, I quickly understood that "Oh, I'm just as capable as anybody else in that capacity."

I know I can write.

I know I can do the things I can do.

I know I deserve to be in the rooms that I'm in.

But in terms of receiving positive feedback from people, receiving -- feeling seen by people, that was a very weird situation.

And I think also my upbringing had taught me, unintentionally, without blaming anybody, that vulnerability was a weakness.

And I didn't realize that vulnerability is the only way to connect with other people.

>> Yeah.

>> And, you know, when we were in Poland, that was a wonderful example of everybody being vulnerable, me knowing a bunch of guys for five days, and developing lifelong relationships till this day.

But it was through vulnerability.

It was through us being scared as crap to go in the ice.

It was sharing stories and crying together and holding each other.

And these aren't things that I ever realized was a thing when I was in a long-term relationship, because I always thought I had to maintain a level of protection.

And I didn't realize that the fortress I was building was a prison.

And what I thought I had to do to protect myself, because I had a few negative experiences as a child and I was thinking very simply, were not serving me as an adult.

So my ability to receive love isn't there.

And I think a lot of people -- a lot of people can't -- even today, can't receive compliments.

They don't know how to accept compliments, and I think that's a good sign right there that we don't know how to be open and receive love.

And I think that's the first step to understanding that there's not a lack of love in anybody's life.

>> It's a lack of receiving love.

>> It's a lack of -- Yeah, again, the breeze can be there.

If your sail is closed, then you're not going anywhere.

>> Right.

>> And it's more about doing the work to open yourself up to this.

And it's scary and it will blow up in your face sometimes and you may be vulnerable with the wrong person and it may totally feel like you just dumped your heart in a situation and nothing came out.

But it's not about what you got from it.

It's what you become through doing it.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And I think that's been the journey for me, realizing it's like it's being more and more uncomfortable every single day and realizing that I'm only entitled to the work.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> What comes from the work, that's not my concern.

>> The results you don't know, yeah.

>> The results I don't know.

>> What were the two or three things you did over the last two years to create more lovability within yourself, the ability to love and receive love more?

>> So, what I learned through -- And I believe it was potentially Jordan Peterson, in one of his interviews was, the definition of sin -- the actual word "sin" -- the definition is to be without aim.

And it helped me realize that I was actually avoiding setting concrete goals and concrete directions to anything I wanted.

So, one of the first things that I did was realize that I need -- You know, if you want to get in better shape, you hire a trainer.

If I want to be a better writer, I hire a writing coach.

So I went and got into therapy.

And, again, that's a dating process in itself.

Took a few therapists until I found the right one.

And once I got a therapist, one of the things we did when it came to romantic relationships was, she had me relive my entire romantic life.

>> Ooh!

All the relationships you were in.

>> I mean, even the little ones when you were like 7, 8, the little crushes.

>> How long did that process take to relive those?

>> That was probably two full hours of just storytelling.

And she paid attention to my face, and whenever my face got bright, she goes, "Write that down."

And what we ended up doing was, we ended up becoming aware of what qualities actually make me, you know, excited or actually make me want to be more vulnerable or actually -- Because I think -- >> Feel more loved, all those things, yeah.

>> Feel more loved.

And I think, also, what I'm actually enthusiastic -- Because I think everybody will have the generic like, "This is what I want in a partner" or "This is what I want in a friendship," and they'll all be the same answers.

And I think what that did was, it really pointed out to me the unique things that actually mattered.

You know, remembering the very first person that I dated that had said to me, "You know what?

The world needs to hear what you have to say.

Like, the world needs to hear Humble the Poet.

Like, you need to stop doing all this other stuff."

And, like, thinking about, okay, versus dating somebody in the future, when I was telling them my plans, and they're like, "But what if that doesn't happen?

Like, can't we have a plan B?"

You know, and realizing that, okay, those are two very different directions that people can take me in their influence on me.

So I need to be with somebody who's going to constantly push me out of my comfort zone, who constantly wants that for themselves, and then also learning that, hey, not only are we just discovering qualities in a person, we have to relate how do those qualities make you feel?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So instead of saying, "I want someone attractive," the question is, "First off, what is attractive to you?"

Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And what does that do for you?

Is it you want someone attractive because you want a piece of arm candy to impress your friends or do you want someone attractive because you want somebody's symmetrical face that you can look at or do you want someone attractive because, you know, you have a commitment to beauty and you want to enjoy being around beautiful people or you want someone attractive because they smile a lot?

You know, there's different definitions of that.

And I think forcing me to go deep made me become very specific with who I wanted to be around.

And even this morning, I had a therapy session, and she was explaining to me, people either fly, fight, freeze, or fawn when they're nervous.

And she goes, "Fawners are people who start to manipulate the situation to be more likable."

She goes, "Listen, when you discover a fawner, run the other way."

>> [ Laughs ] >> "Don't be around any women who prioritize being likable over communicating clearly, who -- or conflict resolution.

Be around people who can communicate successfully and in a straight line to you."

And she goes, "Don't spend time and energy around those other people."

And that's a tricky thing, because we want to be liked by everybody, but this requires you to be like, "Okay, you're not somebody I can invest time and energy in."

And, again, not just romantically.

This also means work relationships and in friendships.

>> Yeah.

>> So being clear with what works for me and what doesn't work for me versus wanting everyone to like me, I think, was a very important step into revealing and realizing more love in my life, because being like, "Okay, everyone listening to this interview may not like me, and that's okay.

You know, let me be around the people I need to be around with."

Going through this process of selling a book, we're playing the attention game.

>> Right.

>> You know, there's endless things I can do to catch people's attention on social media, but a lot of those things might -- you know, might not be things that are in line with my core values.

So reminding myself like, "Even though, like, your career and your paychecks matter and relate to this, ensure people find you for the right reasons."

>> Mm-hmm.

>> You know, I might not be able to play certain games or make certain type of content, but then I'm also not trapping myself on that journey if it works.

>> Yeah, you're not doing dancing videos all day or something that doesn't work for you or make sense for you, right?

>> Completely.

Or even relying on controversy or relying on, you know, polarization and saying things -- >> Or the news or whatever it is, yeah.

News-related topics or headlines, yeah.

>> And we've had that conversation before, too, where you've had people over here where you could, you know, ramp up the controversy, but you don't because that's not what "The School of Greatness" is.

>> Right.

>> And I think there's a beauty to that, and it may make the growth slower, but it's more sustainable.

>> Right.

It's healthier.

>> It's way healthier.

>> And I think that -- It's choosing health, the slow long-term over the fast, immediate.

And it was you who said to me -- and it's always stuck with me -- "Good things happen to people who defer gratification."

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And I think about that all the time, because in front of me is always this gratifying option, and then there's the long, hard road.

And I was like, "Okay, Lewis --" >> I know.

And you also have a tattoo that says, "Remember the future," right?

>> Which I got watching this show.

Joe Dispenza said this on your show, and I remember hearing it over the pandemic and being like, "I love it."

And, yeah -- >> But i think it's thinking about our future self, you know, as frequently as I can.

It's funny -- I had a therapy conversation last night with my coach.

And I'm going to be 40 in -- I don't know -- a few months, right?

March.

And I never really pay attention to birthdays, right?

I acknowledge them.

I'm like, "I have my lessons," and I reflect on it, but I don't really do big things, because I try to celebrate every day, right?

Anyways, not the point.

But she was kind of, like, bringing it up and saying, you know, "What's your vision now moving forward, like, going into this new decade?"

Kind of like, "What's the dream?

What's the vision?

What's the aim?"

>> Yeah.

>> And I was like, I want to look -- I want to be talking to myself now as my 50-year-old self and coaching myself on all the challenges or fears that I'm faced with and seeing, like, all the actions I know I can take that I feel like are going to be scary, but then, when I'm 50, I'm going to say, "That was nothing.

You know, good job.

Like, I'm glad you went through those fears.

I'm glad you conquered that.

You got us here.

But, really, that wasn't that big of a deal.

You know, it wasn't that big of a deal.

It just feels like a big deal before we do it."

So -- But it's funny.

I was having the similar type of conversation about remembering the future, because I'm trying to make a few big decisions in my life, and she was like, "Is this going to feel like a big decision 10 years from now?"

And I'm like, "No, it's going to feel like a small decision 10 years away."

But it's something I need to do in order to feel -- now, as opposed to delaying it, in order to feel that later, so -- >> Yeah.

As Ruben's been affiliated with the word "love," you've been affiliated with the word "greatness," because when these cameras go off, you are just as wonderful, if not more.

And I think -- I want your audience to know that.

I mean, I've known you for years, and you're just a dope dude.

Everyone we speak to knows you're a dope dude.

And, you know, so, greatness is just putting in that energy and effort and doing things from love.

>> My man.

Appreciate you.

Thanks, Humble.

>> Of course, brother.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes, and if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

Now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course "Find Your Greatness" is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.