-Hi, I'm -Eric Ford for Made Here.

-The newest film -from Vermonter, Ian Sweet, -focuses on the green River -reservoir, -which sits just north of Hyde -Park in Lamoille County.

-It's a pristine -body of water, -full of wildlife -and Bountiful fishing, -which attracts thousands -of visitors every year.

-Ian's film -looks at the history -of this natural resource -and its future -in light of climate change, -economics and land use.

-You can watch green River -reservoir and other great -made here films -streaming on our website -and through the PBS app.

-Enjoy the film -and thanks for watching.

-(Singing): When the -noise of the world -is too much to bear.

-There's a place you can go.

-With clean air.

-It's the wind in the pines.

-And the song of the moon.

-Calling for you to.

-And calling for you.

-Oh, green river, -seat of our soul.

-Oh, green River, -won't you take us home?

-Dip your all in.

-Wanna -watch the rivers flow.

-Cast your light.

-Sons and daughters.

-In the evening glow.

-And the birds mark -the seasons.

-And the stars shine above.

-Calling for you.

-Calling for you.

-Oh, green River.

-See the our on -O green River.

-Won't you take us home?

-May it stay this way forever.

-May it shine.

-May stay this way forever.

-Yours and mine.

-May it stay this way forever.

-May shine.

-May stay this way forever.

-Yours and mine.

-It's quite -an interesting long history.

-They built the dam for.

-For multiple purposes.

-As far back, -I think the earliest one -I saw was 1917.

-People had to recognize -the importance of the area -and were investing in it -by buying up -the land before anything -was actually in process.

-So then what happened -was, Green Mountain Power, -who actually then, you know, -eventually took over central -Vermont public service.

-But they consolidated -the land and, they -then decided to move ahead -with this, -this construction of this dam -and the two purposes were -they were thinking about long -term power production.

-And then the other thing was, -this was flood control, -but it was much later -that then they finally put in -they had plans for actually -two electrical production -facilities -on the green River.

-One of them -which they built initially -with a -1.8, megawatt generator.

-And then they were going -to put a bigger, facility -slightly down the, -down the stream, -a mile and a half.

-There used to be a little, -hamlet called, Garfield.

-And, now it's mostly -all gone, -and they never built that, -and that was going -to be twice as big.

-But eventually -Marston Water and Light -took control of the, -property, -and they ran -that successfully -for quite a while -doing logging.

-And, letting anybody use it.

-You know, it was open for -anybody to come and, camp.

-And it got to be -fairly popular after a while.

-So the people that were -using it like Bill Bartlett -and others, decided that, -you know, this was a great -asset that we ought to -spend some time and -get the -state to be interested in it -and set it up as a park -so we wouldn't have it -trashed -by people of industrial -camping everywhere.

-My husband -and I, Bill Bartlett, -and we discovered -green River reservoir, -or I'd say in 74, -and there was no one there.

-it was a totally deserted -sort of a place.

-We discovered -a couple of the islands -and we'd go up and we'd -then take our basset hound -and, pile him into the canoe, -and we'd go out to one -of the islands and we'd camp.

-So it was really from -from that time forward -that we actively used -the reservoir.

-And it was from that long -involvement -that the Friends of Green -Reservoir developed.

-Actually, when I -moved to Vermont, I had -already had about 9000 -miles of open boat paddling.

-The green River -reservoir was much more wild -wilderness -like than it is now.

-Water and light put a barrier -across the entrance -to the water.

-The reservoir there, -with multiple layers of heavy -duty cable that was attached -to the utility pole.

-And that work -because nobody -is going to want to sort -through that -with their chainsaw.

-The leadership of Morse -will water like to put it, -put a gate -at the top of the ramp -where the kiosk is now.

-so it meant that -motorboats were not allowed.

-However, it came about, -it was truly one of the most -extraordinary gifts -that Morse for water -allied leadership gave, -almost maybe unknowingly, -to the community -and to northern Vermont -and to all of us who, -really value, -paddling, -bodies of water that are -largely undeveloped -and without any motorboat.

-So I had already been here, -for 20 years, -paddling on the reservoir.

-I had also, at that point -in 1990, -I had known Bill for about an -15, 18 years.

-So we met in 72, 73.

-And when we began noticing -that, -the use of the green River -reservoir -was ramping up, -and at that time, -Mooresville water -lights approach -to management was hands off -at the gate.

-and no motorboats.

-And that was good enough.

-It really was good enough.

-So users were unregulated -and we noticed that -campsites -were popping up everywhere -and people were, -going to the bathroom in the -woods, leaving toilet paper -and their human tours because -there were no outhouses.

-There was nothing there.

-Bill Bartlett's life -work around water quality, -the reason that the quality -of water is what it is -in the state of Vermont -is largely because of Bill, -who was was a fierce advocate -for keeping Vermont's -waters clean.

-I personally mapped -with a small group of people -every single campsite, -and we located, campsites -and we -we noted the size -of each of these campsites.

-So we measured -the perimeter of the impact.

-So we just as a group -started going up in the fall, -and then we'd -go back up in the spring -just to clean things up -and decided, well, -we're doing this -and we'll call ourselves -the friends in Green River.

-And, -became more actively involved -with with working -with Morrisville Water -and Light, -letting them know, you know, -we were cleaning it up -and doing that.

-And that was fine.

-And, Forest and Parks -and the Agency -of Natural Resources -had been interested -in buying green River -reservoir for years.

-But it had never in terms -of everything they do, -it was way down the list.

-So it didn't, you know, -and Forest and Parks, -to this day, is -still terribly underfunded.

-And they have issues -trying to trying to take care -of what they already have -as parks.

-So it wasn't there -all.

Let's buy it.

-Let's buy it.

-But, I then began -I was into my political -career in the Senate -and, was also on -the Appropriations Committee -and for many years -chairs of appropriations.

-So I said, well, let's -see if we can bump this -a little further up -the further up the list.

And, -the, -had some -conversations with the state -and they were -certainly interested in it -at that time, not necessarily -having it be a state park, -but at least getting it, -getting it purchased.

-So, as many things happen -in small communities, -I had a conversation -with the -then chair of Morrisville -Water and Light -and said, you know, I think, -I think we can come up -with a package deal and -we can and we could buy this.

-Would you are -you guys really interested?

-Would you like to do it?

-And he said, -let me talk to his board.

-So we talked to his board -and they said, yes.

-And, Natural Resources -Council, we -they had the money and -and so we, -we sort of quietly -just got the deal done -and it got purchased.

-Senator Leahy was always -a tremendous champion -of making sure -that that organizations -that particularly helped -with conservation -in this state, had access -and would get federal -funds in to them -so that the money -so that the money was there -and, and there's -and there's always Senator -Leahy came through and, and, -helped them -come up -with the missing dollars -so that they were able to -have the cash to do the deal.

-We are a conservation -organization existing really -just to -preserve the wilderness -like qualities of green River -reservoir, which we all feel -very passionately about.

-We're of all people involved -in paddling -and camping there.

-We were formed -when that land was sold, -was coming up for sale, -and we very much -wanted to be a state park.

-So we did absolutely -everything we could do to -to help -the other conservation -organizations that were -pulling it together.

-Since then, our primary goal -has been to do -whatever we can -to help preserve the the, -the reservoir -and support the state park -in ways that we can.

And.

-There's a local gem, -and state resources -just really aren't -sufficient to manage it -and take care of it properly.

-So local folks and users of -it step up to the plate.

-And and again, for the -for the we already had the, -the organization, -the Friends of Green River.

-but to be able to -raise money, -to help, pay -for some of the initial staff -to help pay -for building the buildings, -just all those sorts -of things that, that they've -been able -to turn green River into a, -into a lovely, state park.

-The Agency -of Natural Resources -includes three departments.

-The Department -of Environmental -Conservation, -where most of our regulatory -programs are housed.

-the department of Fish -and Wildlife -and then the Department of -Forest, Parks and Recreation.

-and within FPR, -we have the staff responsible -for managing, Vermont's -55 staff, state parks -in the northeast.

-Here I -have 18 staff locations.

-and that's I'm primarily -responsible for the parks -from the summit of Mansfield -East and Berry North.

-Greener reservoir -fits into the northeast, -state parks -and into the state -park system as a whole.

-it's one of our, you know, -one of the gems of the state -park system.

-It's, it's it's a very -unique and special location.

-It's quite different -than most of our other more -developed campgrounds.

-what we have here -is a focus on maintaining -the wilderness -like characteristics -of the location, -and providing opportunities -for dispersed -outdoor recreation.

-As we see -about 18,000 visitors, -to the green River Reservoir -State Park each year, -both in as campers -as well as day users.

-it is a well, beloved fishery -and just this, incredible, -surface water body with out -motorized craft.

-And it's one of the few -in the state.

-And so, -no, it is at the top -of many paddlers lists -of favorite places to go.

-So the -friends became, an advisor -to the state -on operations, -on facilities, programing.

-And we help support the state -with money with master -planning at no charge.

-We became involved -with some of the early design -of the moldering -of the composting toilets.

-We designed, and helped -pay for the contact station.

-I designed, the middle -parking lot and the boardwalk -that is the accessible trail, -the kiosk.

-Equally important, -we became, helped -with the protection of -the view shed within the land -that can be seen -from the waters -of the reservoir -during the summer months.

-As we became an instrument -of support for the state.

-And in return, the state.

-agreed to meet with us twice -a year to really promote -the educational opportunities -that the park staff have -with virtually -every single visitor about -why it's so important -to not have motorboats, -or to be quiet -when you're paddling, -or to take care -of your campsite -to clean up, -to use the moldering toilets, -to value the place that bill -and many of us had known -from the early 70s -through the 90s -when there was such a -huge perforation, unregulated -proliferation of use.

-I make -sure that all -the daily chores get done.

-reservations.

-I make sure -all the financial, -task we have to do -stay up to date -and just, you know, manage -the general staff here.

-It's one of the few parks -where -all of the sites are remote.

-You can only reach in -by canoe or kayak or paddle -board.

-These days.

-We have a lot of others.

-First and foremost, -it's like keeping -keeping the attendant safe -and well -prepared for the day.

-And, you know, really trying -to pass on some knowledge -and hopefully that trickles -down into the guests and, -just keep everything -going in the background -as best as I can -and hope everyone, -you know, the guests and, -the staff -included, -are having a good summer.

-We check every campsite, -we make sure there's -no what we call micro trash.

-You know, bottle caps -or pull tabs.

-we clean the fire pit.

-we check the composting -toilet to make sure that -it's, you -know, -everything's clean up there.

-we keep buckets of sawdust -or wood shavings -at each site.

-Yeah, people want that.

-They want they want to go out -and they want to.

-They want to have, -a wilderness like experience.

-They they they -some people want that quiet.

-They want the solitude.

-They want to listen -to the loons, -in a more -developed campground.

-Sometimes -you have a little more noise.

-well, all over campgrounds, -there's typically -not a whole lot of issues, -with people, -but it's more of a family -scene, and they'll be kids -riding bikes and people -having fun and barbecues -and stuff like that.

-But this place is for -the people -that want to go out -and really experience, -being in a more remote area.

-The green River Reservoir -State Park is absolutely, -one of the gems for loon -habitat.

-partly -because of all the bays -and islands, loons like -to have their own little 70 -to 100 acre zones, -for territories.

-And it's one of the places -we've had a long term pair -since 1978.

-The population in the state -bottomed out in 1983 -with 12 pairs.

-One of those -was the northwest -site at green River.

-They're pretty steady -throughout the 80s and 90s.

-And then in, early 2000, -a second pair -formed on green River.

-And then in -just after 2010, two -more pairs have now formed.

-Really, only two of the pairs -are productive -from being very successful -on their island sites, -producing chicks -consistently.

-The other two still haven't -quite figured it out.

-Partly the habitat's -not quite so good.

-And also competition.

-is starting to play a factor -with the loons -sort of intermingling -with each other, -and that can interfere -with nesting.

-whether they nest or not.

-It can interfere -with nest success.

-It can interfere with chicks -survivorship as well.

-but overall, those -especially the -the access cove -in the northwest cove -now are consistently -producing chicks.

-Maybe not every year, but, -quite often.

-And it's actually become a -kind of a little central hub -where you get non breeders -flying in, hanging out.

-and so in the middle -of the reservoir, -you'll often -see a group of 8 to 10 loons, -just kind of -checking each other out.

-Some of those are the pairs -part of the pairs -from the reservoir itself -coming out and joining -that group.

-Others are flying in -from nearby ponds.

-and, you know, living -that's part of loon -life is always -sort of assessing -territories, -assessing each other, -getting to know -the neighbors.

-so it's it's -just been a super great spot, -to it's all natural nesting.

-We do put nest warning -signs out, -because of all the canoeing -kayak traffic and just -essentially asking boaters -to stay 50 to 100ft away -from the nest sites.

-And that just gives them, -a little breathing room -during their most vulnerable -time.

-When they're out -in the water, -they can just kind of swim -around and, -you know, there's -nothing really -that's going to bother them -too much.

-They kind of know -what's a threat -and what's not a threat.

-But when they're on the nest, -they can't fly from land.

-and so to feel safe, -they often -would get into the water if, -if something of threat came -nearby, -whether it's a person -or whether it's an eagle, -they might, might get off.

-So eagles are going to be -an interesting factor -over the next decade.

-See how they influence, -nest success and chick -survivorship.

-but it's also -one of the places -where loons have become -very habituated -to kayak and canoe traffic.

-So oftentimes -they'll bring in their chicks -right up near people -and they can just -get a really amazing look.

-That from here.

-Yeah.

Cool.

-So we are on Zach Woods -Pond right now.

-And we've been watching -two chicks.

-And now that's the second -adult coming in.

-it's been on its own over -in that corner.

-So really, -another little special gem -which is a part of the green -River State Park.

-We used to think that loons -made it for life.

-that was back in the 1980s -when before we learned -or before we figured out -a way to, tag loons, -but color -bands on their legs.

-but since that time, -in the late 80s, early 90s, -some techniques came along -to be able -to successfully capture loons -and put color bands, -and we could look -at return rates.

-And through that work, -we've discovered -that about 80% of the time -it's the same male and female -returning every year.

-but about 20% of the time -there's a -switch in the mates.

-Some of that's mortality.

-some of it -a loon might move to a -different part of a lake -for unknown reasons.

-Or another lake nearby.

-and then the other one -is the switches and mates, -where you actually get -a territorial challenge.

-And I was talking about -those groups of loons -out on green River.

-Well, that's -part of what's happening -is they're assessing -each other.

-And is that pair prone -to a takeover, -or is that pair really strong -and leave them alone.

-And so they're communicating -that all the time, both -vocally, through the calls, -through the male yodel.

-but also visually, -through little interactions -and head bobbing and, -and diving and posturing.

-That's all sort of saying, -you know, -who's who's strong, -who's not.

-and if, if you're if those -intruder loons, extra loons -might be game for a takeover -and you'll actually see -chases and challenges -and maybe a fight, -but oftentimes -it never gets to that level.

-It's it's more -of a communication thing.

-so those, those, those non -breeders are always kind of -again assessing territories.

-And they'll -when a chick returns -to the area, -they usually spend 3 -or 4 years on the ocean.

-They'll come back -to their natal lake area, -but not often, -maybe not to the same lake.

-but then they'll spend three -or 4 or 5 years -investigating the region -before they actually find -a spot to nest.

-They don't nest on average -until they're 6 -or 7, eight years of age.

-and a loon -might -get kicked off a territory -and then have to look -for a new one -so that there's just all -of this interaction going on.

-And which is a kind of a neat -thing about loons, is -we can watch that, and be -part of that all the time.

-It's easier -if it's their mark loons -and you know who's who.

-But we don't.

-We only have a few birds -marked in Vermont.

-So when a bird finally finds -a spot in a territory, -they'll made up the.

-The average -marriage of a loon -is about 4 or 5 years -before there's a switch -in one of those mates.

-sometimes -there's a switch right away -because the pair's weak -or something's wrong or, -or there's -a really strong intruder.

-But other pairs might last -for 1015.

-and in one case, out -in Michigan, -there's a pair that's -been together over 20 years.

-So why do -loons only lay 1 or 2 eggs?

-compared to a mere gander -might have, you know, -seven or more eggs.

-It's a different life -strategy.

-loons are, super involved -in the parental care -and don't care -for their chicks -right up into October, -even November in some cases.

-And when you have that length -of commitment to the chicks, -they tend to only have 1 -or 2 young eagles -or that way as well.

-and, but the survivorship -is really high relative -to the number of eggs -that have been laid.

-So in Vermont -we've been seeing about 70%, -even 75% chick -survivorship rate.

-whereas survivorship -of the type of bird -that lays -ten eggs is really low, -they're hoping to at least -get one or 2 or 3 of those -to survive.

-So it's a different strategy.

-Where do you where do you -invest for loons?

-They invested in parenting -both male and female.

-Share -in every activity equally.

-And that that includes nest -incubation.

-It also includes -feeding the young kid.

-It's defending the young -and caring for the young.

-both the male -and female are involved -in every process equally.

-it's just, you know, -really neat to see, -but kind of both the male -and female out there, -you can't tell the male -and female apart, -visually, except that males -are bigger than the female.

-loons were adapted -to be swimmers and fliers, -but they're not land -creatures.

-Their legs are in the back -of their body, -so they can actually -they can't actually -walk on land.

-They can kind of shuffle -on their bellies.

-They can raise up -to turn an egg, -and then they flat -right back down again.

-And that's one reason why -they nest one, two, -maybe three feet -from the shoreline.

-and so they could easily, -like, pop into the water -when a threat comes near, -whether that's a raccoon -or a fox or whether -that's a human in a boat, -they feel safe in the water.

-They do not feel safe -on the land.

-if you come across a nest -and it's not marked, we don't -put signs around all nests.

-that loon might hunker down -and put its head out -and sort of lie -in a prone position.

-it's sort of -getting out of bird shape.

-So a predator is often -focused in on the bird -shape of the head, -or it's focused on movement, -whereas if a loon lays -real flat, -it becomes a stick.

-and that zebra -coloring, the black and white -you mix in a few grasses, -it can be really hard -to see a loon -sitting on a nest -in that position.

-So loons in Vermont -are doing really well.

-A conservation standpoint -is to, to maintain that.

-and so part of our effort -is to work with, volunteers.

-So the folks at the state -park, -the Friends of Green River -reservoir, -and they become kind of -the eyes and ears of, of -watching the parrot and, -and educating other people.

-I'm kind of a coordinator -of all of that.

-And loons are such, an icon.

-When I got my -first Pentax camera in 1970, -and I've been doing -photography ever since, loon -monitoring, -I began that in 2010 -because that forces me to -get out early in the morning, -when the waters -are relatively calm -and when there's better -chances of seeing wildlife.

-so I'm always carrying -this camera and -and a telephoto lens with me.

-I put it in this water -waterproof case here -until I get into the -my kayak.

-If I can get out there -when the chicks are just -newly born, that's when -I get the greatest pictures.

-And my knowing when they nest -because -I report that to Eric Hansen.

-And then he lets water -and light know -and they try -to maintain the water level.

-So by that the gestation -period is about 28 days.

-So then I try to time -expected hatch -to some of my trips, -and if I'm lucky, I get there -just on the day -they've hatched -or the day after that -and get some good pictures.

-All wildlife is attracted -to me from the insects -all the -way up to the deer and moose.

-numerous kinds of -ducks, including wood ducks, -which -I think are really beautiful.

-the dancers -with their babies, -there's always geese, -an occasional hawk.

-Sometimes in the fall -or spring, -I'll get a migratory bird -that just happens to be -there, like Bonaparte's Gull.

-And I got a great picture -of a couple of years ago -in flight, flying -right toward me -in the early spring.

-There'll be a lot of, trees, -swallows flying around.

-this time of year, -you'll see -a lot of phoebes -swooping down -over the water -to get insects in the back up -to, overhang -or something like that.

-There's -always something of interest.

-Well, I've got lots, lots -of great shots of beavers.

-in all stages, -including just the tail -going up in the air.

-I don't think they're -a great threat to the loons, -but snapping turtles might be -a little larger threat.

-But the biggest threat -is probably the bald eagle.

-few years ago, somebody, -actually one of the kayakers -actually observed -the bald eagle taking one of -the chicks out of the water.

-What's so special about -it is being quiet waters.

-No motorboats around.

-You can swim way out and -not have to worry about it.

-And when I'm out there -doing my photography, -I can get up.

-I can cruise -quietly into those areas -where I traditionally see -wildlife -and not scare them and -be able to photograph them.

-The highlight -is probably that picture -of the loon with two chicks -on the back side -I got in 2015.

-That's the only one -I've gotten with two chicks.

-It's quite rare.

-!Most often it'll be one on the b -So this -is, the Vermont Forest Bird -Monitoring Project.

-We started this in 1989, -I think with six study -sites around the state, -and we now have about 30 -study sites around the state.

-And these are sites -that are monitored -primarily by, by volunteers.

-And they consist of five -point counts separated, -by about 200m each.

-And the observers visit -these sites every year -during the height of the -breeding season and June -and, survey birds for -ten minutes at each point.

-And, all of our study -sites are located -in interior forest, -so they're away from, -edges, impacts -of development and roadsides -and things that can affect, -bird populations.

-so these are interior forest -sites, and most of them, -almost all of them are sites -that are free from any -kind of forest management.

-So there's -no timber harvest or -or any kind of forest -management going on.

-So that eliminates one, -one variable that can affect -bird populations -and sort of confound the, -determination of long term -trends and what's, -what's going on -with forest birds.

-And that's the whole reason -why we -we started it to get, -sort of, -to, to monitor -bird populations over time -and track population -trends to see how these -birds are doing -there.

-There are a few species -that that are declining -and continue -to decline and have, -you know, have been declining -since the beginning, Canada -warbler being one of them.

-We have documented, -decline in the overall -abundance of the forest birds -that we've been studying -for these 30 plus years.

-But there are certainly, -number of species -that stay here -for the winter.

-Woodpeckers and.

-chickadees.

-blue jays, -you know, a number.

-And there's also -the species who are short -distance migrants -who may only go -to the Mid-Atlantic states, -and then we may get birds -from Canada -who just come to this area -for the winter.

-so we might the Blue Jays -we see here in the summer -might not be the Blue -Jays we're seeing here -in the winter.

-When we started the project.

-There's no end date.

-It's just long term -monitoring.

-And, the hope is -it will continue for the long -for the long term.

-This site is, -as Steve mentioned, -part of the forest bird -monitoring program at BCE.

-and this summer -it's been one of the sites, -along with other forest bird -monitoring program sites -across northern and north -central Vermont, -that we've been serving -as part of this larger -maple study, of which -BCE Audubon Vermont -and a team -at the University of Vermont -are part.

-this summer has really been -to look at -untapped, -unmanaged forest stands, -to compare with previously -surveyed sites -that were active -sugar bushes in 2020, -2021 and 2022.

-so those years we were doing -all the same surveys, -all the same protocols, -looking at birds, looking -at vegetation and looking at -our three pods, -which are, insects -and a number of other -basically creepy crawly -groups that are bird food.

-in.

Yeah.

-So we're looking at those -in sugar bushes -and now those in unmanaged -northern hardwood forest -stands, basically maple.

-Not a shocker -for any Vermonters -watching is a big industry -here in Vermont.

-it's expanding to the point -where we're getting wall -Street -investment in sugaring.

-and so I think there's a -there's a lot of concern, -both amongst the public, -but also at the sort -of regulatory -level of what impacts -may this have as we're -converting forests -that are either unmanaged -or managed for wildlife -goals, -or are managed for timber -and other wood products -production.

-What is the impact -if we're we're converting -those stands -over to Sugarbush?

-if there are any -I think foresters -have a, practitioner's -understanding -of the realities -of what that means.

-But the way -that science works -is that if no one's tested it -or looked at it, through, -scientific approach, -and it's not published -in the peer -reviewed literature, science -doesn't know it to be true.

-And so basically, this study -with Audubon Vermont -and BCE is looking to see, -what are the impacts -that maple sugaring -has on our forests -and our forest birds?

-And, -how effective is Audubon -Vermont's bird friendly -maple program at potentially -mitigating some of those, -what we don't -know are negative impacts, -but could be negative -impacts on birds.

-I moved here to, -northern Vermont, -51 years ago, and I was hired -on as a game warden.

-And after a year of training, -I was assigned -to the Moyle County -as a, the field warden here.

-And Revd.

-Franklin Hooper was the, -the warden that had been here -for since 1933.

-And I was going to -take over for him -because he was about -to retire at age 70.

-One of the first places -that Red took -me was up on green River -reservoir.

-And, I saw the first loons, -and I just fell in love with -that with that reservoir.

-So I've been, been involved -with the reservoir -ever since.

-One of my favorite places -to patrol.

-I'd go up there and canoe, -and I'd check fishermen -and talk to campers -and, just really enjoy -that whole that whole area.

-When I first got here, -it was primarily -pickerel and perch.

-there was the biologists -when they did a survey -a few years after I got here, -also found -that there was a good -population of suckers, -but people rarely catch them, -and they're down pretty deep.

-so folks would troll -for pickerel, -and, I'd fish for perch.

-but there was no bass -at that time.

-And, I had -we had a lot of back -and forth with a biologist -and decided that, -it would be great -to introduce bass -into green River reservoir.

-So we, the first year -and this would have -been, let's say mid -70s, something around there.

-they netted -some bass over Hardwick Way, -Nelson Pond, -Mack Pond, that area, -and brought them over -and I think was like -250 bass, different sizes -and released them.

-And then the next year -they got a bunch of fry, -I think, from New York State -and, put them in and that -fishery just took off.

-It was really a tremendous -bass fishery.

-people started to learn -about it and were coming.

-evening fishing -with topwater laws was great.

-fly fishing for them, -particularly an early -season was was really fun -and, it was very popular, -fishing there.

-So I had -I had lots of folks -to talk to -when I'd go up there -on patrol.

-They were using it then -more as a, -a storage facility for water.

-And when they wanted -to, needed more water -at their facilities -downstream -on the Illinois River, -they would release.

-And sometimes that would be -a significant amount of -water going downstream -or on -Garfield Road that -the green River runs under.

-And when we only open -one tube, -the paddlers feel like -it's not quite enough water.

-If we open two, we threaten -to wipe that culvert out.

-We are totally open -to working on on releases -as is currently contained -in the water quality permit.

-you know, recreational use -is a good and viable thing.

-We want to have all partners -be good partners.

-We want everyone to be able -to move forward together.

-So the green River outside -of Morrisville, Vermont, -it's about three miles -of whitewater that we kind -of pay attention to.

-And it goes down -into the Lamoille.

-right -where crosses under route 15.

-it's about -class three four and -a couple class five rapids.

-And it sits in -a pristine, remote area that, -is pretty, -pretty unique for Vermont.

-I've been paddling -the green River, somewhere -along 2012, 2013, -a couple of years after -they did the, flow study -and they figured out -that they could get -dam releases on it.

-and then we would kind of go -up, we'd get five, -six days a year -where they'd let us know that -we can go paddle it.

And, -typically we'd -have a pretty good turnout.

-Sometimes, you know, -you get 15 boaters, -sometimes you get 40.

-if you can know about it -in advance -and it's the right weekend, -you can get a pretty good -turnout.

-So usually, you know, -there has to be enough water -in the reservoir.

-they are either -doing a fall draw down -and trying to bring -the reservoir height -to a certain -height, before winter.

-same thing could be in -the spring after, you know, -all the snow is melted -and filled the reservoir.

-or we get a big rainstorm -and they know -they need to dump water -to keep it -at a certain height.

-I know -they're pretty particular -about the loon -nesting up there.

-There's a lot of that -going on, -and they like to have -a certain water level.

-And what's really special -about the green is -say we get a big storm -on Tuesday, -and Vermont kayaking is like, -you better go kayaking now -because it just rained -and you have a day or two.

-But with the green, -that rain -could have fallen on Tuesday -and they could let us know, -hey, we need to dump water -this Saturday and Sunday -we'll do a release and -having that ability -to have it planned -makes it a very unique -and special thing.

-Kayaking is class -one through five, class -one kind of moving water, -a little bit of repose.

-Two is a little harder, three -some action, some some, -but still relatively -straightforward.

-Class four -gets a little -more challenging, -and you have to be able -to pick your path.

-Maybe -you should have a whitewater, -you know, roll -or you can flip back up.

-And class five is is pretty -full on waterfalls and, -not much room for error.

-So the green has it's -a majority class for run.

-And there's three drops -that class five.

-And you can walk around them -if you want.

-or you can kayak them.

-And so the class five drops -I'll start there -because it's kind of visually -the easiest thing to see.

-you're -looking at the first run, -the first one -we call moonshine, -and it's a ten foot -waterfall, and it lands, -in a small eddy of calm -water, if there is any.

-And then it's very involved.

-Once you go from there.

-So it takes a lot of skill, -you know, to be online, -hit the drop -and then paddle away.

-and there's a lot of, -you know, -there's a moderate -amount of consequence -if you don't, you know, are -are there -things that could create -a class five rapid or hazard, -such as undercuts, -strainers and siphons.

-So where water -might go through.

-But a person couldn't, -if that makes sense.

-there's a drop -in the middle of the run -called young Buck that -gets run, -but more often gets portage -because there's -strainers and and siphons.

-but it's an easy, just -kind of get out your boat, -walk around, look at that, -and then you get on -with the rest of the run.

-and then class four -is we're in our boats more -just kind of, -you know, we can probably -look over the horizon line -and see that it's okay.

-and it's, it's moving -a little bit slower paced.

-and the lines aren't -as hard to hit.

-So think of it, you know, -you go to a ski resort -and you see a blue square, -a diamond -and a double black diamond.

-once you've done it -a few times, it's pretty easy -to see standing at the top -what you're getting yourself -into.

-The agency of natural -resources, -has an important role -in the relicensing of dams.

-We are specifically -responsible, for reviewing, -hydropower, relicensing, -initiatives to ensure -that they comply -with the state's -water quality standards, -which is, a set of chemical -and physical, -requirements -that all projects -in the state -need to comply with.

-We license -hydropower facilities -generally for 30 to 50 year -terms.

-that's different than almost -any other permit -issued by this agency, -which generally -has a five year term.

-so Morrisville -Water and Light -is operating under a license, -that was issued -shortly after the the initial -Clean Water Act -in certainly our knowledge.

-and goals for environmental -protection have continued -to evolve, -over the past decades.

-And that's also reflected -in the the 401 certification -we issued for this project.

-and I think, you know, -it looks new.

-And so Morrisville has had -more questions maybe than, -we would expect -in a traditional regulatory -process -that occurred on -a five year interval.

-So these are complicated -undertakings.

-they have several parties, -the Morrisville -Water and Light, -the agency, as well as Ferc.

-there are appeals -processes that Morrisville -has avail themselves -of at different points -in the process, -that have certainly slowed -things down.

-and these are big, -complicated undertakings.

-The Federal Energy -Regulatory Committee, -which ultimately license -the dam, tells the applicant -in this case, Morrisville -Water and Light, -that they need to check -with the state agency, -in this case from an agency -of natural resources to make -sure that as they issue -this new 40 year license, -the conditions of the license -are appropriate -to protect water quality -and uphold the state's -water quality standards.

-And that includes issues like -the health of the stream.

-As far as its ability -to provide habitat -for fish -and other aquatic animals.

-In this case, -when the agency -of natural resources -looked at the downstream -condition of the dam -and the condition of -the habitat in the reservoir, -as the dam has been -operating -under the old license -for the last 40 years, -the scientists at the state -agency determined -that the level of flows -in the river below -the dam were not appropriate -for supporting healthy -communities of fish, healthy -reproduction of fish, -as well as the life -cycle of the bugs.

-And so the agency had -determined that there needed -to be some adjustments -in the flow regime -below the dam.

-The agency also looked at -the health of aquatic plants -and animals such -as dragonflies and loons, -and how they were affected -by the winter -drawdown of the reservoir, -the amount of water -that the utility -was taking out of the dam -during winter time in order -to generate hydroelectricity, -and after scientific study, -not just by the agency, -but the agency looked -at reports that were produced -by Morrisville and Water -and Light's own scientists, -and determined that -both the amount of drawdown -that was occurring in -the reservoir was too much -to protect the aquatic life -forms in the reservoir.

-And also, -that the amount of flows -that were being released, -from the dam -and the, the timing -and types of those flows, -were not appropriate -to maintain -healthy levels of fish -and other aquatic animals, -as is required by state -water quality standards.

-Trout unlimited, -nationally as an organization -is very concerned -with stream passage issues -of which dams or certainly -play a significant role -for Trout Unlimited -to be involved, -as an intervener -on any number of dam -relicensing issues -that may happen in Vermont.

-That certainly is true -for the Lamoille, which is, -cold water fishery.

-you know, the dams -that, Morrisville, operates -are, you know, -are sort of a -classic examples of dams -where Trout Unlimited would, -would want to be involved -with, creating flows -that are conducive -to the habitat -and also to the cold water -fisheries that, -that exist there.

-Well, the green River -is fairly unique.

-It's, -you know, the green River -as it exists below -the dam is, very cold water -fishery.

-The, green River -reservoir is, bottom release -reservoir, -which consistently releases, -very cold water.

-that creates, -a great little fishery -within the green River -itself of brook -trout and brown trout -and some rainbow, -and also as it flows -into the Lamoille, creates, -helps to, -to keep the temperature -moderated, and cooler, down -below where the green River -comes in.

-But because of the, -the damming -of the green River -and the creation -of the reservoir, -it's also created -a really unique, -cold water plume, from from -the dam that exists for, -a good ways -down the Lamoille as well.

-Morrisville, -like most hydro operators, -wanted as close -to a continuation -of the of the license -that they'd had -for the previous 30 years.

-And the state -typically doesn't love -that idea when they think -about the next advancement -in water quality.

-Yeah.

-So the big issue here -has been largely around -what's the level of change, -for water quality.

-and early in the proceeding, -when you look -at the documents, -everything this references -the Clean Water Act demands -as well.

-Congress last reauthorized -the Clean Water Act in 1992.

-I was secretary -from 1998 to 2003.

-So the Clean Water Act -hasn't changed.

-So I know it's -Clean Water Act said then.

-And so I know -what it says now.

-So really -what Vermont was arguing for -was the next increment -under state interest.

-Really the Clean Water Act, -the Clean Water -Act is very vague -and it gives states -a lot of room.

Right.

-So so the water quality -really the sticking point is -you've got a 100ft tall dam, -and both -for flood protection -and to generate power.

-There's always been around a -ten foot drawdown allowed to -for those purposes.

-And for most of the year -that goes to zero -in the new permits.

-which means you can't really -make that hydro station -has a very difficult time -being of any use, -because the way -the electric system works, -most of the cost -for electricity -is bound up -in what we call peaks.

-So there's, you know, 13 -data points a year, -the peak for every month -and the peak for the year.

-And that drives -most of your cost.

-So hydroelectric -is ideally suited -because you can turn it on -when those peaks -are coming lower -you load and lower -everybody's costs -for the whole year.

-Well, -if you can't draw down at all -like zero -for most of the year, -then you're -not going to be able -to do anything with that.

-so it -really -diminishes the value of, -of the hydroelectric plant -when, -when you go to the level, -that that was contemplated, -you know, throughout -that permitting process, -as we've moved through -a number of these -relicensing facilities, -has been to look to dampen -those those high peaks -and those lower bottoms, -to maintain a more -consistent level of water, -in the channel that reflects -what fish -would have ideally seen -under natural conditions, -recognizing -when it rains, flows come up.

-And sometimes in the summer -when it's drought flows -go way down.

-but to stay within -that range, as opposed to -to dramatically exceeding it, -or falling below it, -based on operation, -we can still draw down -the draw do power.

-We don't do it -nearly as much as we used to, -because we know -that our new permits -are going -to be more restrictive.

-So we've been criticized -in the past -for playing the game, -to be able to draw down ten -feet in the winter time, -we draw down like three feet -because we actually think -nobody -should ever want us -to draw down -less than that -in the wintertime, -because with ice buildups -in the, in the spring, -it's quite possible -you could wipe the dam out -if you don't have anything -drawn down.

-it's one of the things -we're talking -with the state about, about -I think they, their current -water quality permit, -limits us -one foot in the winter, -and we actually think -that's dangerous.

-It's one of things we want -analyzed in this study.

-Even right now, -we're within a 10th of a foot -of fall in the new permit.

-It has to be 0.0.

-We're not going to -I don't know how you can -possibly be 0.0.

-We typically are a foot -and a half at most, -and in the wintertime, -a couple feet, -we're nowhere near -the ten feet -that's in our feet.

-Our current permits still -valid from the early 1980s.

-The, study -the guy will be undertaking -for us -is really a comprehensive -engineering investigation -of the green River -dam facility.

-there has been suggestion on -and off by Morrisville Water -and Light -that they have an interest -in the state -taking ownership -of this facility.

-And we need to make sure -we understand -exactly what condition -the dam is in -before being willing -to engage further -in conversations -about potential state -ownership.

-This is a really significant -dam, one of the largest in -the state.

-the ongoing operation and -maintenance of that facility -is likely to require -significant investments.

-And so it's something -we can't enter into lightly.

-When the noise of the world -is too much to bear.

-There's a place you can go -with clean air.

-It's the wind in the pines.

-And the sound of the moon.

-Calling for you to do.

-Calling for you.

-Oh, green river -seed.

So.

-Oh, green River, -won't you take us home?

-Dip your, -in water -and watch the rivers flow.

-Cast your life.

-Sons and daughters -in the evening.

-Flow and the birds -mark the seasons.

-And the stars shine up.

-Upon calling for you -I'm calling for you.

-Oh, green River -seed.

-Our song.

-Oh, green River.

-Won't you take us home?

-May it stay this way forever.

-May it shine.

-May you stay this way -forever.

-Yours and mine -may stay this way forever.

-May shine.

-May stay this way forever.

-Yours and mine.

-You can breathe here.

-Oh, it's a cherished -resource.

-Here's a local gem.

-It's a very unique -and special location.

-It kind of feels like you're -in backwoods Maine, -even though you're about -five minutes from a town.

-So it's pretty.

-It's beautiful.

-It feels wild stuff.

-One of the gems of the state -park system.

-the designation of the park -is wilderness.

-Like, -one of my favorite places -to patrol that reservoir -makes that so unique.

-Just really enjoy -that whole that whole area.

-The green River -Reservoir State Park -is absolutely one of the gems -for loon habitat.

-What's so special about -it is being the quiet waters.

-What we have here -is a focus on maintaining -the wilderness -like characteristics -of the location.

-Well, it's one of the most -beautiful places on earth.

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-For more, -visit Vermont public.org.