[ "Taps" plays ] ♪♪♪ -When a family loses a military member during service, they become known as a Gold Star family.

It's a designation no one wishes to receive.

My family did in 1944, 1945, and again in 1969.

I'm Stacy Pearsall, retired Air Force staff sergeant.

Today I'm sitting down with Nathaniel Lee, Shanon Duffy, and Joe LaPointe, three veterans who were compelled to serve after they became Gold Star survivors.

-A car pulled up, and the commander and the chaplain got out.

I didn't know what it meant at the time, but the look on her face was that something terrible had happened.

-I remember saying, "Hey, you need to get home.

Something happened to Shane."

I think the shock factor of, he, like, literally just went back to Iraq.

So I really thought that it wasn't him.

It's got to be a mix-up.

-There was not a dry eye on the hill that day.

It was, you know, it was very emotional.

We were all emotional about it, those of us that lost him, and this was 30 years later and it was still affecting them to that day.

You never get over it.

You're never going to get over it.

-I don't begrudge people who, like, have a barbecue or say "Happy Memorial Day."

-No.

-But I have, for the last few years, gone to Arlington on Memorial Day weekend with other Gold Star families, and that is a really powerful experience.

And there's nothing else that compares to it.

-This is "After Action."

-♪ There will be light ♪ ♪ There is a road ♪ ♪ Marching on ♪ ♪ Coming home ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ [ Birds chirping ] - [Presenter] Major funding for "After Action" is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

With the generosity of individuals, corporations, and foundations, the Endowment is proud to sponsor "After Action".

♪♪♪ -Joe, Nathaniel, and Shanon, welcome to LowCountry Acres, and I'm really thankful that you had the time to come and sit down with me today.

It's a very special topic because we're not only talking about you, but we're talking about a veteran near and dear to you.

And so I want to kind of dive right in to each and every one of your stories.

Joe, I'm going to start with you.

Where are you from and how did you come about joining the Army?

-I'm from Kettering, Ohio.

I came to join the Army... My father before me went, and as is his dad did, too.

And wasn't a lot of prospects after high school, and, I don't know, I think I probably had my eyes set on the Army before even that, so... -At 17, Joe LaPointe III enlisted in the Army in hopes of connecting with the father he never knew, but whose name he shared, a man who saved lives as an Army medic in Vietnam.

Through his own service, Joe began to understand his dad's decision to volunteer for war and ultimately sacrifice himself for others.

Nathaniel, what about you?

-So, I was born in Texas when we were stationed at Fort Hood.

Then, after my dad passed, we moved back to Northern California, where my mom's family all is.

And both my parents were in the military.

My dad passed.

My mom had been enlisted in the Air Force when she was younger, like, before they even met.

And I always thought maybe I would want to go into service, but I wasn't exactly sold on it when I was 18.

So, I went off to college, didn't do ROTC or anything like that, but then by the time I was graduating college, I felt like it was probably my path.

So I just walked into a recruiters office in Mishawaka, Indiana, and said, "Hey, how do you become an officer?"

And they said, "Here's some paperwork," and then that was it.

-In grade school, Nathaniel Lee used to tell classmates that his parents were divorced because it was easier than trying to explain that his father, Army Captain Donnie Lee, had died in service.

Now serving in the Space Force, with children of his own, Nathaniel strives to help other Gold Star children process loss as a mentor.

What about you, Shanon?

-So, I spoke to my brother, who passed away in Iraq in 2008, but I spoke to him my junior year.

I was supposed to go to college and play softball, but I knew that that wasn't really my route.

So I asked him advice.

He's -- He was Army.

I only knew really Army and Navy.

I was like, "Hey, I don't really want to go into, you know, college.

I want to do the military thing."

Like, we had a lot of the same personalities.

Long story short, he said, "Listen, promise me, try college, and join the Air Force."

I did fulfill his promise and went to college, and kind of got up in the middle of a history lecture, and I was like, "I'm doing what I want to do."

And I went down to the recruiters office and joined.

-Though dissuaded by her family, Shanon Duffy felt the pull of military service after losing her brother, Army Sergeant Shane Duffy, during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Knowing the toll casualties have on families like hers, she decided to become an Air Force medic so she could treat the wounded and get them back to their loved ones.

I think you all have something in common, and that is the fact that you're all a Gold Star family member.

And I was hoping that you might explain to me a little bit about what exactly that means, and maybe a little bit about each of your stories.

Joe, you want to kick us off?

-Sure.

In May of 1968, my father, Joseph Guy LaPointe Jr., enlisted in the U.S. Army as a conscientious objector and would be trained as a combat medic.

One month shy of his 21st birthday, he was killed in action in Vietnam and would become one of only three conscientious objectors in military history to be awarded the Medal of Honor.

I was five months old when my father passed away, but I truly didn't understand his sacrifice until my later years.

Being a Gold Star family member, I didn't even realize there was such a thing until maybe 10, 15 years ago.

So, pretty recently.

You know, when I was going through everything with my dad being killed in the military and... there was no support system there for, like, me and my mom.

We didn't know the Gold Star was even a thing.

And then, I believe my mom got into it because she started working with the American Veterans Heritage Association, which is -- at the time, it was at the Dayton VA. And that's where she actually met other Gold Star mothers.

And that kind of drove her into it, and then she dragged me along for the ride.

-Nathaniel, what do you -- what's your thoughts on it?

-My dad, Captain Donnie Lee, was an Army aviator flying the AH-64 Apache.

He was the Army Aviator of the Year in 1996.

But in 1997, he was killed in a training accident.

He left behind me, my brother, and our mom.

Although I lost him over 25 years ago, his dedication to service and love for his family continues to inspire me every day.

My story is similar to Joe's in a lot of ways.

We...

When my dad died, it was after the -- after the First Gulf War, but before the Iraq War, and so it was a time where there wasn't a lot of military loss.

And right when he died in 1997, it was like the entire base, right, the entire, like, Fourth Infantry Brigade or Fourth Infantry Division, essentially, like, descended on our house 'cause all his pilot friends and c-workers were also grieving.

And then we finished out the school year and moved to Northern California, where I had the family support structure, but was totally severed from the military family.

And it wasn't until my mom actually found out about an organization called the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors and we went to their national Good Grief Camp, where I actually found, like, other kids who lost a parent for the first time, I realized that I wasn't the only Gold Star kid out there.

-I think there might be a common misconception that Gold Star only encompasses those who were lost in combat.

Can you clarify that for us?

-Yeah.

So, my dad died in an aviation accident.

So, it's not just combat losses.

It's really any type of loss.

You know, accidents, combat, certainly, but toxic exposure... Like, any kind of loss of someone who served -- -Right.

-...qualifies as a Gold Star family.

-And I think also there's a misconception that Gold star really only relates to, say, a spouse or a parent or a child.

And so many Gold Star encompasses siblings, too.

Shanon, can you tell me what it means for you to be a Gold Star family member?

-So, like, being a Gold Star sibling, it's -- there is a phrase that's like the ones, the forgotten ones, or the ones left behind.

I think, after my brother being killed, it was -- you'd run into somebody, and it was obviously asking about his wife and his child or my parents.

But for a while, it was nobody really checking in on the siblings.

An organization in Massachusetts started a nonprofit that started to do sibling retreats.

And like Nathaniel said, that was the first time me and my siblings were able to be around other siblings that kind of felt the same thing, or we connected with them and were able to talk about it.

Obviously, being a Gold Star family member, we all understand that loss and the sacrifice that they made.

But when you are raised with them your whole life and then all of a sudden they're snatched from you, it's hard to explain that, you know?

You learn how to ride a bike together, you learn how to...

He taught me how to tie my shoes.

So, having -- having that opportunity to meet other Massachusetts fallen soldier siblings and being like, "Wow, you actually... Yeah, that's exactly how I feel."

Like, you know, that was -- definitely helped me and my siblings with the grieving process and kind of coping with the whole idea of being a Gold Star sibling, never mind just a Gold Star family member.

My brother, Sergeant Shane Duffy, served in the United States Army as an infantryman.

While deployed in 2008, he paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

I was only 18 years old, preparing for my senior prom when I opened the door to the casualty officers.

Growing up, I idolized Shane and certainly was his shadow.

Not only was I his shadow, but he was also my best friend.

-Oftentimes you would be probably feeling grief or trying to process those emotions and somebody would be asking you about, "Well, how's your mom doing?"

instead of saying, "Well, how are you doing?"

-It was extremely difficult, and I was only 18 years old.

Like, when you run into people, obviously, you know that you're well known in the area, you're in the city, they're going to ask about how you're doing.

But almost, I want to say 95% of the time, it was always, how is his wife and how is his kid?

So, for a little bit, you have a little resentment, like, almost like, but what about us?

You know, like, am I supposed to -- am I -- like, I'm allowed to grieve, right?

Like, this is -- this is my loss, as well.

Like, I'm empathizing towards his wife and his child and my parents, of course, but what about me?

It's like nobody's remembering us and checking in or just expecting us to be okay.

"Well, it wasn't your husband.

It wasn't your dad.

It wasn't your son."

It was like, no, it was -- it was my big brother.

He was like a second dad to me.

Or he was like, he was my best friend.

He was my sister's best friend, and my brother's.

I'm just telling you, hey, next time, if you ever meet somebody that's lost somebody, make sure you just ask about the whole family.

-Mm.

Makes me wonder.

You know, we see so much in Hollywood depicts, you know, the fallen service member and then the military's protocols on how to reach out to the next of kin.

And I'm wondering what is actual, the reality of a situation.

Joe, your story is so incredibly unique.

So I kind of want to lean on you initially because your story, I would imagine, is kind of in reverse, where it was told to you in some ways.

Can you explain that for us?

-I was just talking to my mom the other day, and she was telling me about, she was reminiscing about where they got a telegram in the mail that said my dad was missing in action.

And then two days later, officers showed up and said, "No, he's killed in action."

And that was it.

That was 1969.

It was 30 years later that someone from my dad's unit actually reached out to us.

And, Fernando De Pierris, he reached out to my mom and he said, "Hey, I was in the unit with, you know, Guy, and, you know, would you like to come talk to us?"

And she was like, "Sure.

Let's go see what's up."

So, you know, me and her went there and we talked to him, an incredible person and he was forming the B Troop reunion kind of thing.

So, he asked us if we'd like to come and meet more members.

And I had a blast just talking to him and listening to his stories, you know, 'cause this is the first time I've really had any contact with anybody from the military about my dad.

There was like, you know -- there was no support.

There was zero support.

You know, I have to emphasize that 'cause there was -- there was nothing back then.

And I really grew up a confused little kid by it.

I didn't understand, you know, how come I didn't have a dad, but everybody else I know has got a dad?

And you know, where's mine at?

And I just didn't question a whole lot.

You know, I just kind of took what was fed to me and... One of the memories that sticks out is there's a Stewart Street Bridge in downtown Dayton, and they had made a Vietnam Veterans Memorial there, have a little memorial park, and they asked if I would do a wreath throw off the bridge there.

And my mom agreed.

And I was young.

I don't remember how old, really.

10, 12, somewhere in there.

And that's when it started to hit me, kind of like... what really happened.

It wasn't so much from somebody telling me.

I just started putting all the pieces together, and...

But I think when we had that dedication, that's where it really started to sink in, you know, 'cause more military people started coming to these things.

And, you know, we've done several in the Dayton area, many Memorial Day services, things like that, and...

Older military personnel started coming to these and, you know, "Oh, I heard about your dad," this and that and the other, and I'm just like, "Huh.

'Cause I haven't."

You know, "I haven't heard about him.

Please tell me."

-Oh, my gosh.

So, what did you discover?

-I just discovered what a great person he was all-around.

I mean, it happened long before the military.

He was very religious.

He was a sharpshooter.

There's no reason that he couldn't go to war and kill somebody, but that was completely against his religion.

And that's why he went in as a 1-A-O, conscientious objector.

And they sent him to medic school, and he became a medic, and he was almost done with his tour.

We actually went to Vietnam in 1999 with the guys that were left out of his unit.

We walked up on Hill 376 where he was killed, on 30 years to the day.

And J.R. Baltazar, he told his story about what happened that day.

And J.R. was 17 at the time, so he was, you know, a young kid, and they were all young kids.

My dad himself was only 20.

And...

There was not a dry eye on the hill that day.

It was, you know, it was very emotional.

We were all emotional.

It was really treacherous action that happened that day.

There was two other people that were killed.

-Well, you were about six months old at that time?

-About 4 1/2 months old.

-So, fast-forwarding, you went to Vietnam and you heard these stories 30 years later.

Was it healing for you to go on that journey with those gentlemen and with your mom?

-Yeah, I had a lot of questions.

You know, maybe not so much questions as I just wanted to know things.

I was thriving for information about him because I grew up so distanced from him.

You know, it was like, "Okay, here's your father.

He's on this plaque on the wall."

But I never got to get any of the personal stuff.

You know, Mom...

Mom was only 19 when this happened to her, and she kind of closed down about it, so I didn't really hear a whole lot from her about it.

And I think she was just trying to chug through life and figure it out herself.

You know, she was just a kid, too.

-When you went there in person, was... Like, was it... Did it help you grieve?

Like, to be able to see the location and kind of, like, you know, see it how it may have played down in person, because... -It did.

We were there for a couple weeks and we were there for about a week beforehand.

And, you know, so the week beforehand, we're all getting acquainted with some of these guys I've never met before.

And it was everything from infantry guys to the helicopter pilots and everything in between.

We actually met General Burke, who was his lieutenant at the time.

And Lieutenant Burke was the one that put him in for the Medal of Honor, 'cause... And it wasn't so much just for that action as all of his other actions leading up to it.

And I mean, he was just a consistently good-hearted person, you know?

Doesn't sound like he ever had a bad bone in his body.

And, you know, then just to lay down the ultimate sacrifice, that was just... where he had to go.

-So, you know, when I was downrange, we lost several guys, and -- and some of them right in front of me.

And as a combat photographer, I had to take pictures.

And so I had a lot of pictures before the operations and then during operations.

And in the days after, a lot of the fellow unit members would ask me for copies of the pictures, obviously not from the day, but from any ops that I was on prior.

And I would scrub all my information from them and say, "Don't tell them where these came from.

Just give them to the families."

I guess a part of me is like, maybe I was just a chicken.

Maybe I just didn't know how... ...how to be on that hill in Vietnam and explain what happened.

-Yeah.

-Maybe I didn't.

How do you say that to somebody's children later?

-There's no right way.

-No.

-There's just not.

I mean, when we went up there, it was a... it was a hot summer day, June 2nd.

And it was a long trek up through the mountains.

You know, it was probably three hours, something like that.

three or four hours, hiking till we go up this hill and... To hear J.R. stand up there and listen to him recount the whole battle, because he knew exactly what went down, and being up there with the guys that were there that day, um...

There's no way I could ever get any closer to my dad than that day, to him.

-Mm.

-We had rubbings from the wall, too.

-Oh, yeah.

-And so we burnt the rubbings.

His and the two other guys that were killed that day, the two that he was trying to save.

-Did you find any... You were how old when your father passed, Nathaniel?

-So, I was 7 when he passed.

-7.

So, old enough to know kind of what was going on and to have a pretty good memory of your dad at that time.

-Mm-hmm.

-What was that process like for you?

-It's funny that you mentioned, like, the movie aspect of it, 'cause that day in my memory, it's exactly like a movie.

Like, my brother and I were playing in the driveway, and the car pulled up and the commander and the chaplain got out, and my mom came to the door and just saw them.

And I -- I didn't know what it meant at the time, but the look on her face was that something terrible had happened.

And she told us to go down the street to the neighbors that we knew.

[ Swallows ] And... then the commander and the chaplain went in the house, and a little while later, we went back over and she gave us the news, and our lives were changed forever.

-Did it -- Did you comprehend what was happening in that moment, like that Dad wasn't coming home forever?

Or did it feel more surreal?

-I -- I guess both.

I mean, I...

It certainly felt like the permanence, like, that he was never going to be back, but I certainly didn't understand the full impact of what that really meant in terms of holidays and birthdays and things that he wouldn't be there for anymore.

-How overwhelming was it, too, to have so many perfect strangers relying on you to help them through the grieving process?

And you were only 7.

-Yeah, that -- it was a really hard time.

That -- 'Cause it was early December.

So basically that entire Christmas season was just people at our house nonstop.

And I can certainly understand why my mom decided to move us away just 'cause she... That was a really hard time for her because she said she felt like she couldn't fully grieve because she had to attend to all these other people who were grieving.

And then... going back to school after the winter break, I felt like everyone's eyes were on me 'cause the whole town knew what had happened.

And I, for a long time, just wanted to pretend like it didn't happen and just, like, try to forget that my dad had ever even existed, because you're 7 and you just don't want any attention on you, especially attention that now you're the kid whose dad died.

-So, what did you tell your classmates?

-I didn't really tell my classmates anything in Texas because they knew.

But then when we moved to California that next summer, I actually told my -- all the kids that our -- that my parents were divorced.

'Cause I was already the new kid in a new school, and I didn't want another thing to be like, "Oh, he's also the kid whose dad is dead."

-Mm.

Did you kind of stick with that storyline for a while or...?

-I can't remember exactly when, 'cause obviously, like, my teachers and people knew.

But it was, again, that first, like, TAPS national Good Grief Camp where I was finally able to, like, share my dad's story with the other kids who had lost siblings or parents.

-How old were you when you went to the TAPS summer retreat?

-So I was -- it was Memorial Day weekend when I was 9.

So, that was like the first time that we really went to that event.

-Did you find it liberating to be amongst a tribe of people that understood it?

-I did afterwards.

At first, I was really apprehensive about it.

Especially just because this is, you know, we're all the way on the East Coast from California, and it's Memorial Day, and I'm just in a place where I'm like, I don't want to talk about this.

I don't want any more attention on it.

But then by the end of the camp, I did feel really liberated, like you said, that I could finally honor his legacy, share his story, and then was able to go back home and be more proud instead of ashamed of him and what had happened.

-Yeah.

That's interesting, a word that you...

It's an interesting word choice in a way of, like, where does the shame come from?

-I think it came from just not wanting to be any more different.

-Mm.

-And having lost a parent is just something that makes you different.

And especially when you're 7, 8, 9, you want to be as un-different as possible.

-Well, speaking about being at a hard time in life, I mean, Shanon, how old were you when your brother was killed?

-I was 18 years old.

I was actually getting ready for my senior prom.

It was June 4, 2008, and I remember running upstairs and being like, "Mom, I don't have earrings to match my dress."

And like, obviously you look back and you're like, "Oh, my God."

I was looking for earrings to match my dress, and 30 minutes later I was opening the door to two casualty officers.

And I was the one to open the door at the house.

My dad was still...

He's a -- He was a -- He's a retired firefighter, but he was still at the f-- still working as a firefighter.

So, he was at work.

My sister was working at the mall.

My brother lived in Providence, Rhode Island, which was about 35 minutes away from my hometown, Taunton, Massachusetts.

I remember saying, "Mom, there's -- there's military vehicles outside or government."

The sedan had, like, a government plate.

And then I saw, like, the military, like, truck behind it.

And they went to the side door, so I didn't see them in their -- in their dress uniforms.

And my mom knew right away and screamed, "Don't answer the door."

So, she tells me all the time, she was like, "I just thought that if you don't answer the door, that it wasn't going to be reality."

[ Shakily ] Um...

Excuse me.

Thank you.

Um...

Nonetheless... [Indistinct] Like you said, like, everybody comes to your house and everybody's surrounded, especially with my father being a firefighter.

It was like firefighters, everybody was at our house, immediately.

But I had to call my brother, my oldest brother.

And like, I basically just said, "Hey, you need to get home.

Something happened to Shane."

He literally walked.

He walked from Providence to our house.

And luckily my aunt was driving by him and saw him, picked him up.

Once everybody got...

So, we had to wait there until the whole family, so that was the longest 45 minutes of my life.

Mind you, my sister-in-law is an hour away.

Already knows the news.

She can't call anybody.

He was just home like a week and a half prior.

So, I think the shock factor of he, like, literally just went back to Iraq.

So for a while, like, I was...

I went to prom.

Like, I didn't... Like, I really thought that it wasn't him.

That was my mentality for a while because we were like, he just went over there.

It's got to be a mix-up.

Well, I always tell people that it literally changed the -- my whole entire life.

Yeah, I had an interest in joining the military previously, but after that, then I really had even more, like, passion to want to be in the military and understand what that camaraderie was.

'Cause he was injured.

He had a hurt knee.

He could have easily been like, "I can't go back."

You know, it was bad.

Like, he could barely walk.

But I remember him always saying, like, "I need to go back for my -- the men on the left and right of me, like, those are my brothers."

It took me until I joined to understand that.

-Did your fellow service members know that you had lost a brother?

-I did not.

I kind of kept it to myself.

There was one or two that I shared with, like, but I -- Like, it took a while for me to trust them.

-It's just easier to keep it quiet than to have to explain it all the time.

-Well, I related to him 100% when you said, like, I just didn't want people to look at me with those sad eyes.

-Right.

-And I...

Joining the military got me away from the community that, no matter where I walked into, everybody stared at you.

You know, like, "Oh, that's Sergeant Shane Duffy's sister."

I didn't -- I lost the title of "That's Shanon," you know.

It was consistently that I'm "Shane's sister."

Even if I graduated with them or grew up with them or they watched me grow up, it was always, I'm Sergeant Duffy's sister.

Joining the military, I got to find my own identity, and I didn't want to...

I didn't want anybody to steal it away from me.

-Right.

-Now, when I came to, like, me being more passionate about serving and caring about the job and any lazy troops, like, sometimes I get so upset that I'd freak, like, I'd yell and I'd lose my temper.

And they had no idea why I was like that, 'cause I would...

They thought I was like a gung ho, hard-core military, like, which I was, but, like, I had an example of if you don't do your job correctly, somebody can lose their life.

Like, the military is a well-oiled machine.

I don't care if you just push paperwork.

There's a reason for everybody's job.

-Well, Joe, you didn't tell anybody about who your dad was either.

I mean, he was a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient, and nobody in the Army knew that.

Why was that?

-Not as far as I know.

Uh...

I don't know.

I mean, you hear Medal of Honor and... ...you realize it's something very dignified, and I just, I wasn't -- I wasn't trying to ride off anybody's coattails.

I wanted to be me.

So... -I can appreciate that.

So, it's interesting that all of you had a loved one who lost their life in service, and you chose to go down your military paths.

Was there any sort of discovery along the way in terms of having a different appreciation or a different perspective of your loved one's sacrifice based on your own service?

-Yeah, my dad was a medic, and...

I understand he was supposed to leave for R&R the day after he was killed, actually.

And his replacement hadn't shown up.

That's where it struck a chord with what Shanon said, where he said, "No, my unit's going out in the field and they can't go without a medic.

I'm going with them."

And they all said, "No, you go on R&R tomorrow.

You go to see your wife and kid tomorrow."

He's like, "No, you guys are not going out in the field without a medic."

And ultimately that decision cost him his life.

-Mm.

-So... -We've talked a little bit briefly about our stories, but like, as you guys tell your stories, I am relating more about my story as well.

Like, Shane just got back.

We ended up finding out that he just got back from leave.

He was supposed to have more days to like, recoup and stuff, but one of his buddies, he was trying to get home to see his child.

You know, it was just born, and he kind of took his place on that mission.

And when you tell your story, it's like, that's literally exactly what happened to my brother.

-Right.

-You know what I mean?

And like, I didn't understand it until I joined the military.

Like, I got mad at my brother for a while.

But now, once I joined, I was like, "Yeah, I would have done the same thing."

-Yeah, I think there was -- there was some questions in my head at the time, too, as like, you know, "Why did he just stay?

How come I had to be the kid that grew up without a dad because he wanted to stay?

I don't understand why he wanted to stay."

And it kind of made me mad, you know?

But then when I joined the Army and, you know, I went through basic training, advanced training, and even permanent party with the same, a lot of the same guys.

And you get to know each other better than a brother or sister or father or mother or anything.

And, but you're relying on these people, and they're relying on you, and, you know, it's just you're their lifeline and...

I completely understand why he stayed.

I completely understand why he went on that mission.

And I can't say I'm happy about the decision, but I 100% understand it.

And I think that probably gives me my biggest peace.

-I feel the same exact way.

-Nathaniel, did your service change your perspectives?

-It certainly gave me an appreciation for like, like Shanon and Joe have said, how deep the bonds that you form with the people that you serve with are.

Like, there are some people that my dad served with and flew with that I still keep in touch with.

And especially as I was a kid and then a teenager, they regularly were reaching out to me and my mom, and I didn't understand really, like, why are they so invested in me?

We don't even live near them anymore.

And now through my own service, like, these... right, your brothers and sisters in arms, those are...

Friendship is almost not strong enough of a word for it, right?

It really is that brotherhood and sisterhood that you form that I think you don't really get any other place other than the military.

-It's interesting you say that, because sometimes just saying brothers and sisters seems a little inadequate.

You know, in that... [ clears throat ] ...with that sort of shared experience or shared trauma or the fact that you would step in front of them and take a bullet for them.

That's huge.

And, um...

So, when I came home, I had a lot of unprocessed grief because I really relate to what you were saying, Shanon, in that I never really allowed myself to.

For me, it was unique because I was an Air Force photographer attached with Army units, and in so many ways looked at as maybe a relative outsider.

So, getting downrange and then going out with those units, of course, you know, again, that those -- those shared experiences really bring you quite together.

And so when they were -- when they were killed and I just went on to the next mission, never really processing that loss or that grief and never allowing myself to because I wasn't a sister, I wasn't a son, I wasn't a wife or anything.

I was just a combat photographer who was serving alongside them.

And so, when I came home, it just got even harder, and I didn't know quite how to reach out to any of the Gold Star families and say, "I'm sorry for your loss."

I'm a perfect stranger to them.

So, that leads me to another question.

How do... How do we interact with Gold Star in an appropriate way?

Gold Star families.

What is the best possible way to support you, or to interact with the families or to just be... thoughtful?

-I have to be completely honest, is that, like, everybody grieves differently.

Like, grief can hit you any way.

Basically, what I'm saying is that literally every family is different.

And I've noticed that even my family, like my parents, I love them to death, and I hope I never know how it feels to lose a child.

But my mom and dad lost their baby boy, so they still struggle every single day.

-In the United States, we, every year, have Memorial Day come around.

And, you know, we're honoring those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

Is it more of like, a little salt in the wound?

Or do you look at it as... as it's supposed to be in honor of the fallen?

How do you take that every year?

-Personally, it's a hard weekend for me 'cause that was the last time I got to see my brother.

Like, even if it wasn't Memorial Day weekend, like that last weekend of my...

But I definitely think that it can bring up some... some wounds, especially when they confuse Memorial Day with Veterans Day.

-I don't begrudge people who, like, have a barbecue or say "Happy Memorial Day."

-No.

-But I have, for the last few years, gone to Arlington on Memorial Day weekend with other Gold Star families, and that is a really powerful experience to be in Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day.

And there's nothing else that compares to it.

-'Cause I've been asked this question so many times.

People want to be respectful.

They ask me, and I'm fully willing to like, "You go and have your cookout and enjoy your families and have fun."

You know, take a moment just to think about the men and women over forever, like since the beginning of our country, that sacrificed their lives for our very freedom, for you to be able to enjoy your families, have a cookout, the pool party.

Definitely do that.

That's why we serve, and it's why they sacrificed their lives for us.

And that's truly the way that helps me with my brother's sacrifice.

-Nathaniel, how do you... You have... Nathaniel, you have two little girls at home, and you're still serving.

How do you keep your dad's memory as part of your children's lives?

-We definitely talk about my dad a lot.

You know, we have pictures of him around, and my girls both know that's Grandpa Donnie.

And they know that I work with a lot of Gold Star families.

And I explained to them, "You know, when I was a kid, I lost my dad.

So now I go and work with other kids who've lost their parents or siblings or aunts or uncles."

So we definitely don't shy away from talking about his life and that we lost him.

-Is there anything that you do to honor your loved one that's kind of unique?

-I can't think of anything unique, but... -Yeah, like, hmm.

-I mean, I have, like, my dad's flight suit patch on my desk.

And so if anyone ever comes up and asks about it, like, 'cause it's -- that one says First Lieutenant Lee.

So like, "Oh, that -- that's weird.

That doesn't look like one of our patches."

I'm like, "Oh, no, that was my dad's," and I tell them about his story.

And then all my volunteer work through TAPS is just a way that I try to honor his legacy and pass along my experiences and what I've learned to other kids going through the same thing.

-Mm.

Joe, what do you do for your kids to keep your dad's memory alive?

-Oh, well, me and my mother give presentations about my dad and his actions over there, things like that.

And we've done them at a lot of different veterans organizations and places like that, museums, and just try to spread the word, anybody who'll listen to the story.

-Shanon, don't you have an organization?

-Yeah, so, my sister mainly runs it and she does a phenomenal job with that.

We talked about it.

For me, it's just too close to home, and I don't think I'm ready to, like, you know, go back to, like, every single day.

I help out as much as I can.

So we honor him that way.

For me, like, I personally -- my mom actually gave me one of Shane's dog tags that he was wearing that day.

So I carry -- like, little things like that, I do.

Memorial Day weekend and his birthday, which is June 22nd, and the anniversary of his passing, June 4th, I drink Sam Summer Ale.

Because we went to Dave & Buster's, and he was like, "Try this beer."

And I was like, "I'm not old enough!"

And it was nasty, but now I like it.

So, it was Sam Summer Ale.

That's kind of me and his little -- like, my little toast to him, because technically, that was my first beer with him.

-You mentioned your brother's dog tags.

This is my dad's wedding ring, and they were able to recover it from the crash site.

And my mom kept it for years, and then when I got engaged, my mom said, "Hey, would you like to wear your dad's ring?"

And so I have it.

-Wow.

-That's so amazing.

That's pretty incredible.

--That's awesome.

That's... That's you carrying your father with you every day.

-Nathaniel, you mentioned that you are invested in helping out with TAPS and that the Memorial Day event is really great.

Can you tell me, like, what exactly y'all do?

-Yeah, so TAPS is a really wonderful organization that has given me and my mom and my brother just a priceless gift of a space where we can come and honor my dad's legacy with other Gold Star families.

And what really makes TAPS so special is it doesn't matter how the person died or how you're related to them.

As long as they served and you loved them, you are a part of the TAPS family.

-So, what are you doing at events like those?

Is it... Are you doing, like, counseling sessions together, group therapy?

Are you laying wreaths at tombstones?

What are the events like?

-So, all of that and so much more.

So, the programming is really split into two sides.

There's the adult programming and then the kids programming, which is primarily what I'm involved in.

So, the group side is classes and sessions and events and peer mentoring and all kinds of different things for Gold Star family members who are adults.

And there's -- it's broken out by like the type of loss, your relationship to the person.

Just everyone all together sessions.

And then the kids side of the programming is what's called the Good Grief Camp.

And that is where each kid is paired one-on-one with either an active duty military member, a veteran, or someone else who was once a kid in the camp.

And those one-on-one pairings are really the foundation of the Good Grief Camp.

-So, actually, TAPS has been a huge part of my family, as well.

My niece was only an infant when her father, my brother Shane, was killed in Iraq.

She's about to be 16 on September 11th, and she still has relationships with some of the kids that also, like, share the same loss as her through -- like, she's been going to these camps since she was little.

And whenever I see her with these other kids that share the same loss, even if they don't comprehend it fully, and I see how much fun and the lifelong friendships that they have... What Taps does is amazing, in helping her grow and learn about her father and learn that she's not alone in this.

It's been amazing.

So, I appreciate TAPS so much for that.

-Is there anything that could have been done differently in the sort of notification and the grief support process that perhaps can be evolved or improved?

-I mean, personally, for us, I feel like we didn't know what happened for a long time.

Obviously, we got the report and stuff, but it was classified for a while and nobody really explained much.

So it's kind of like you think you're going crazy 'cause you think he's going to walk up the dirt road and be like, "Just kidding.

I had a special mission."

And I'll always say that was the problem.

You know what I mean?

And then our -- like, we had no support really after until the nonprofits like TAPS and Massachusetts Fallen Heroes came about.

But the Army was just... pretty much forgot about us, except for the men and women, men that were there that day.

-I know for us it was, we went 30 years without knowing anything.

And honestly, it wasn't until we stood in Vietnam on that hill and heard the story.

That's the first time where we knew what happened.

-Yeah, I -- that's why I asked, like, how did that help you, like, with grieving?

Because I always... You know, obviously not going to go to Iraq and, you know, see the village or whatever, but like seeing it in person.

That's why I was intrigued, like, wondering how you felt afterwards, if it like... Not that I think that it will fix anything, obviously.

But like... -I don't know that I really grieved.

I'm certain I didn't grieve the same way as you guys because, you know, I was -- I was a baby.

And so it took me years to even pick up on the fact that my dad was killed.

Or, first it took me years to figure out he was killed, and then it took me probably more time to figure out, oh, he was in the military when it happened.

But by the -- I mean, by the time I was 30, yeah, I mean, I had figured out pretty much everything that had gone on.

You know, I didn't know specifics or anything like that.

And, you know, we got up on the hill and I heard the story and...

...I completely broke down, you know?

And not so much for my loss, but for the other guys that were there, their loss, you know, because he was -- he was an important part of their lives.

And we're talking, this was 30 years later and it was still affecting them to that day.

And, you know, you never get over it.

You're never going to get over it.

You know, I resigned myself to that fact a long time ago, and, um...

I don't even know how to say it.

Did it help my grieving?

Yes.

-Maybe put it in perspective.

-Or maybe it made me come to peace with the whole terms around his death.

You know what I mean?

'Cause I just, I didn't understand everything that was going on.

And so there was a lot of those questions, and they got answered.

And that was probably the biggest thing.

-And I think that's what made my grief maybe a little different and almost easier in a way, is that there was no mystery around it, right?

His helicopter had a malfunction.

It crashed, and he and his copilot died.

There was no -- nothing more to it than that.

It's just what happened.

-No, it's interesting.

You're right.

I mean, everybody handles things or processes everything differently.

You know, I mean, grief is wholly individual, just like how you experience things are individual.

I mean, it sounds like it's been beneficial in a way to be able to comprehend what that camaraderie is in the military and why your loved ones made the decisions that they did to continue to put their lives on the line.

And, you know, and all of them laid their lives down for our freedoms for this country.

And so, every chance that I get whenever I'm in D.C. or if I'm nearby any of the national cemeteries where my friends are laid to rest, I take my time to honor them.

And every Memorial Day, of course, honoring them and always keeping them in my forethoughts.

But to tell you the truth, and I'm sure it's the same for you, every day is a day to honor and to live the best life that I can, because they're not here to do that for themselves.

And so, for everybody who when Memorial Day comes around, I hope they're going to stop and enjoy their families that they have and enjoy the time that they have, and also those who have empty seats at those barbecues, and take time to think about them.

So, I want to thank each and every one of you for sharing these really tough stories to share, but some that absolutely need to be heard.

And I really, really appreciate your openness and your generosity.

And also thank you for your service, too.

-Thank you, Stacy.

-Thank you.

-Thank you for having me.

♪♪♪ -♪ There will be light ♪ ♪ There is a road ♪ ♪ Marching on ♪ ♪ Coming home ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪