Justice Department memo is raising new questions about decades of civil rights protections for Americans with disabilities.

The memo challenges the Americans with Disabilities Act integration mandate, which requires states to provide services that enable people with disabilities to live in their own communities rather than institutions.

The memo itself isn't legally enforceable, but a new federal case challenging the integration mandate could eventually reach the U.S.

Supreme Court.

Joining us to discuss more are market Shock, CEO of Threshold to nonprofit that provides mental health services in the Chicago area.

Karen Stanley, CEO of Access Living a nonprofit that helps Chicagoans with disabilities live independently or at home.

And Barry Taylor, a law lecturer at the University of Chicago specializing in disability rights.

Thank you all for being here.

We appreciate Thanks for having So very Taylor.

If I can start with you, please.

Can you break down what's in the memo for us?

What is the Justice Department arguing here?

Well, the memos trying to relitigate the case called Homestead.

And that's a really Seminole case that the U.S.

Supreme Court decided in 1999.

Justice Ginsburg issue an opinion that basically said that unjustified isolation and segregation is discrimination under the ADA and she pointed to a DOJ regulation that said that as you mentioned, people should be certain the most integrated setting.

And what we're seeing in this memo and I won make clear.

It's a memo is not regulation is not a change in the law.

Only Congress can change the law.

The memo saying maybe this spring court and get it right.

Maybe all the courts across the country didn't get it right.

Maybe DOJ 3.

Decades of of enforcing the 88 again right?

Maybe we should we look at this thing and it's it's really wrong-headed and its approach because it's bringing up something that makes no sense.

If you look at the ADA, if you look at Justice Ginsburg opinion and if you look at all the cases undecided over the last 27 years, so a pretty significant reversal there.

Karen Stanley, can you walk us through, you know, the kinds at-home services for people with disabilities that are targeted by this Sure.

I think the thing we're most concerned about is the right of folks with disabilities to live at home in the community with the supports that they need.

>> So things like assisting someone getting out of bed, bathing dressing Neil preparation, all the things.

The key people living independently living in their own home with the ability then to go out and get a job to participate in our community to go to church, to socialize.

It's a real threat the disability community is rightfully concerned about this.

Yeah.

Are you concerned we could see some states stop providing those sorts of at-home services for folks It because of this memo.

That's the concern.

Unlike Barry said, while this is not law.

>> We are concerned that this memo could be used as a justification not home community-based services or use it as a defense.

If states are challenged around the integration mandate in.

So that's the real concern for us is how this memo is going to be used and, you know, we already know that there are some examples where it is being used as a defense or concerned about how it can shape public opinion.

And just knowing that DOJ doesn't necessarily have our back anymore.

when it comes to fighting for community inclusion is serious concern.

Micah shot.

Why is it important for folks with disabilities to be as integrated into their communities as possible that?

Yeah, exactly.

So this also includes people >> Invisible disabilities, people with mental illness.

And as Barry said on state, got it right.

And we in Illinois have gotten it right for the last 16 or 17 years special.

Just one of the largest providers of community-based mental health services in Illinois and the last 16 years, we've moved almost 1800 people from institutional settings, nursing homes, specialized nursing homes for people with mental illness into the community where they have lived and thrived, lived independently.

Many people have gone back to work, reunited with family and friends.

The road to mental health recovery.

Is in the community and we have shown that this works.

You know it.

You know, as we've been discussing this, you know, the Homestead case that the Supreme Court decided, you know, even if this doesn't have the effect of lot, you know, as as as Ken was mentioning, are there concerns potentially that people could see this as some sort of official guidance from the Department of Justice or at least treated way, even if it doesn't necessarily carry that weight right at that.

I think it's really important for us to be talking about this, that that is not a change in the law and people should recognize that.

Interestingly, DOJ memo itself says that their memo is out of step with president across the country out of step with the Supreme Court out of step with the law.

And they also states that if you follow our memo, you could get sued for disability discrimination.

So not only doesn't that will not make any sense why any state would rely on this memo when they could be subject to litigation for disability discrimination makes no sense whatsoever.

So this whole thing is it's really a distraction.

I think more than anything and the biggest concern I have is that not only but states try to use that to support their position, to avoid integrating people disabilities.

But we're also going to lose.

Doj is committed implementation of the ADA.

They have cases across the country that they worked on world.

Thousands of people have gotten into the community and I'm afraid that DOJ take a step back, least under this current administration and not do what they are charged by Congress to do, which is to implement enforce U N. Does feel like to continue to sultan poor and marginalized communities absent?

That's what it feels like to me like this memo is so similar to the Medicaid reform that we're facing, where millions of people will lose their Medicaid coverage in this country.

Hundreds of thousands in Illinois, the assault and permanent supportive housing that has allowed people to live independently in the community with support services that excess living in thresholds and our partners survive provide.

So this is this is part of a pattern of of targeting the most vulnerable people in the community.

And it's not based in evidence.

It's not based in science.

We know that supportive housing with wrap-around services in the community works for people with disabilities and for people with mental illness.

We have we have a threshold.

70 years of evidence to prove this.

>> Well, and I also think that as we're seeing more pressure on states, particularly with HR one and the cuts to Medicaid states are going be forced to make some really difficult decisions.

Very potentially harmful decisions.

And I think what's also concerning is that home and community-based services are optional.

Under Medicaid wears institutionalization is an entitlement.

And so when the state has more financial medic, he pressure, what are we going to potentially using?

Not just Illinois, but any state in the country we could lose home and community based services and our fears that this now I will just be one more justification you know, to cut and to justify home and community-based services.

So that's another concern.

Yeah, I mean, and how prepared you see Illinois being to to keep providing these sorts of at-home services for the flexibility, the dignity they were talking about.

>> Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we want the governor to stand strong around the right of people with disabilities in Illinois to be able to live in the community.

We know it's more humane.

We know it's exponentially cheaper to keep people in their own homes versus and institutions.

And so we can actually save money by community services and it's what people want they don't want to live in segregated settings where they're subjected to isolation, potentially abuse neglect.

That's been our history as a community.

And we don't want that We don't want to go back and good news is yes, you can carry out.

Just gonna say the good news is that when this memo came out.

>> You know, Governor Pritzker to put out statements saying that disability rights are civil rights and that they were not going to back down from their commitment to integration and inclusion.

>> And we hope that that's that holds true because state is in the process as Mark reference to implementing 3 major consent decrees that are integrating thousands and thousands of people with disabilities.

This memo should reverse really important work that's being done.

All This is about real people think this is not just about the thousands of people that we have collectively safely into the community.

>> This is about Chan.

Barry knows Chand.

Well, 16 years ago, we hope move out of a nursing home.

She's been in her own apartment for 16 safe and healthy and Hyde Park.

She's working.

She's an artist.

This is Rihanna in Kankakee, in a nursing home.

She moved out 10 years ago.

We moved her safely into the community.

She's about to get her bachelors in social work.

She's going for her master's degree.

She's got a job.

She's an artist.

She lost 100 pounds and took care of herself in her life.

This is transformative.

So this is thousands and thousands of people were talking about.

But these 2 examples, you know, should really hit home with people.

This is about is about real people.

And certainly, you know, we heard about the commitment from Governor Pritzker.

It is somewhat of a difference, you know, matter and other states, you know, I know there's a multistate federal lawsuit, Texas, we Kennedy, that's going through the courts right now challenging the and a look at that well, they've already when this memo came out, they did say we want to supplement arguments and add this memo to the next for the judge to look at so.

>> They are there are states that are using this memo.

Again, we think it's just a memo.

It really doesn't have any kind of presidential our enforcement authority.

So we're hopeful that the judges are going to take the bait and that they'll recognize that what for what it is, which is really policy that that makes no sense and is contrary to Supreme Court precedent.

Yeah, we've got just about 30 seconds left, but I mean can't.

And we are you hopeful that that argument and those many years of evidence of the positive effects of funneling in the community will win the day.

I do.

I am hopeful and we're fighting for that every single day.

Not just access living in thresholds, but the disability community across the country is very much on top of this.

And >> doing everything we can to 2 push back against this memo.

Death.

Certainly an issue very close to a lot of folks hearts.

That's all the time we have for this conversation.