♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Chris Thomas and Sir Frank Cooper of the African-American Humor Awards Society next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo, the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> We have two representatives, two leaders of the African-American Humor Awards Society.

>> Absolutely.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Chris Thomas.

>> Right.

>> Sir Frank Cooper.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> It's a pleasure to be here with you, sir.

>> It's a pleasure to be here, Doctor.

>> I want to ask both between comedy and social justice?

>> It's informing young people that you can confront the powers that be any way you want.

But the best way to get your message across is what my father used to say.

And that is, you can get more bees with sugar then you can with salt.

And comedy has been a vessel that people have used, such as a Dick Gregory, to get major civil rights points across to the masses, because the masses can digest something when it's fair to them easy, as opposed to ramming it down their throat.

And that's where we are right now at the crossroads.

>> Chris, you're a great comedian yourself.

How do you see the intersection between comedy and social justice?

>> Well, it gives us a platform to express ourselves, our indifferences, the things that we believe in strongly.

And we can say it on stage in a humorous way.

But most people who are intelligent enough, they understand it and they get the point of what we're trying to say.

>> Whenever I bring people on the show, I always want to deal with your social location.

Where were you born?

>> I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, and, uh... >> Famous city, famous city.

>> And the reason my name is Sir is because back then, when I was born, Black men got no respect.

When you were born to the time you were born, up until you were about 35 or 40 years old, the power that be referred to you as "boy" or "Hey, you."

As I got older, my father said, "The reason I named you that is because the people have to respect you whether they want to or not.

Your first name would be Sir.

But just because I gave you that name, it doesn't mean that they're going to automatically respect you.

You have to earn that respect."

And I've spent the rest of my life trying to earn that respect.

>> So Birmingham, Alabama, was one of the crucibles of the civil rights movement.

>> Absolutely.

>> And you were born at a time where there was phenomenal social change.

>> Absolutely.

>> In Alabama, particularly in Birmingham.

>> Absolutely.

>> Chris?

>> I was born in Greensboro, North Carolina, but I'm a nation's capital person for life.

>> Okay.

>> The interesting part about that, Dr. Ben, is I love going to Greensboro now.

I mean, I've been past the Woolworth where they had the sit-ins.

>> Right, the nonviolent students sit-ins started in Greensboro in 1960.

Four students from A&T University, a great HBCU... >> Right.

>> ...sat down at that lunch counter.

>> At that lunch counter.

>> Helped to change American history.

>> And it's a museum.

And I've been in there and it's great that they kept it preserved, the history for the young generations to understand where they came from and where it might -- what might happen later on if they don't get there, where we are supposed to be in this moment in time.

>> Sir Frank.

>> Yes, sir.

>> One of the reasons why you have the award show... >> Yes, sir.

>> ...is to recognize comedians who normally don't get recognized.

>> Absolutely.

>> Is American society embracing comedy from a people of color perspective, or is comedy facing challenges?

>> I like to tell people the reason why I created the award show, along with two other women, is because Black people got no respect back in the day.

We're talking about major TV shows that met the ratings every week, like a "227," like a Redd Foxx, or "Sanford and Son," Marla Gibbs, all these shows.

We're at the crossroads with comedy to where is it people are trying to stifle comedy, and comedy cannot be stifled.

Because first of all, you're talking about our First Amendment right, which is freedom of speech.

You can say anything you want.

It's the way you say it.

And young people now, they don't look back at their legacies that paved the way for where they are today in comedy, because you got a lot of Black comedians, young Black comedians that's millionaires, and they never give back their style, where they were influenced from.

And the AAhAs is about paying tribute to those people, as well as the ones, the presents of today, as well as the future comics, so we can move forward with comedy and get a lot of things still social justice and get our points across like we did before.

>> Chris, you are well-known as you not only tell great jokes, but sometimes you impersonate >> Exactly.

>> You want to share one?

>> Well, Barack Obama being -- in our lifetime we never thought we would see the first Black president -- I made it my point absolutely to learn Barack Obama's voices.

My voice is deep.

His voice is a little deep, but [as Obama] as I sit here with you, Dr. Ben, I speak about the generations and the young people of the world and what we need to do to uplift not just the Black community but every community so we see each other on a level field.

And I spoke about that when I first was elected, and I was there for two terms.

And we're getting better.

We're not all the way there yet, but we're getting better.

And thanks to you.

>> So, both of you, you have a unique lived experience.

>> [ Normal voice ] Exactly.

>> Yes.

>> What was your most transformative lived experience into comedy?

>> I remember when I was growing up, I was on the morning announcements in high school, and that was a big deal being on the morning's announcements.

for the Miss Black teenage pageant.

And the entertainment at night was Max Roach, the well-known drummer.

>> Yes.

>> And that kind of gave me a head start on what was yet to come.

And then later on, I was able to perform with Prince when he first did his first tour.

>> You performed with Prince?

>> With Prince when he did Controversy.

I was at the Warner Theatre.

Teena Marie caught laryngitis.

That night, they were only going to give me five minutes.

It turned into 20 minutes.

And by me being so young, being able to do a lot of impressions -- I was doing the Wolfman Jacks, the Howard Cosells, the John Waynes, the Paul Lynde and... And you know my ex-manager very, very well.

It propelled me into a whole nother dimension in entertainment.

>> That's great.

That's a great story.

Sir Frank.

>> Yes, sir.

>> What was your transformative moment?

>> My transformative moment came from a young man that started the first Black comedy club in L.A. called the Comedy Act Theater.

>> Okay.

>> When I met this man, all these people that Chris was talking about -- Martin Lawrence, Jamie Foxx, D.L.

Hughley, Mo'Nique, all these people were just starting out then.

And as I'm watching this talent, I'm saying to myself, "Why aren't these people being recognized?"

I do a lot of meditation.

I've never drank, never smoked, never had a beer, never had a cigarette, never had wine, nothing.

But I meditate a lot.

And I go into my closet and I start meditating about it.

How can I change this dynamic?

And I came up with the idea of creating the first award show for Black comedians.

And that's how things got started with me.

And after begging Hollywood for over a year and a half to accept my outlook on this new comedy club that I wanted to create, and everybody turned me down, I said, "Well, doggone it, I'll do it myself," because my father used to tell us all the time, "if you decide that you want to go to the moon, if you stand on the ground saying, 'I wish, I wish, I wish I was on the moon,' it's not going to do you any good.

But if you go into the garage, pull out a ladder and you bring it in the yard and climb to the top of that ladder, and you say, 'one day I'm gonna be on the moon,' well, you closer to the moon now than you were standing on the ground looking up, wishing."

And that's how this whole thing started.

>> How do you see the legacy of comedians, particularly from a community of color and specifically from being passed on from one generation to the next?

>> Well, I can just say I was the guy that David Chappelle talks about that introduced him on stage.

>> Yes.

>> When he was 14, for the very first time.

>> Yes.

>> And I can remember how I introduced him.

His mother came and said -- >> His mother was Dr. Emma Chappelle.

>> Yes.

His mother said, "Can you let my son go on stage?

He's 14."

so I didn't know how to introduce a 14-year-old kid.

I know he's different from the other comedians who could take criticism.

So I said, "Here's a young man that's 14 years old, and you never know.

He might be our next biggest star.

Put your hands together and welcome to the stage David Chappelly."

>> [ Laughs ] That's exactly what he said.

>> You called him Chappelly?

>> I said Chappelly.

And just watching him proves the point that his style of comedy, his openness about every issue, is transcending comedy because we are -- we have We was born with speech.

We was born with it.

Who's going to say you can't say that?

Our mama?

Who's gonna come against that?

So by watching him and Martin and the people I grew up with doing comedy -- Tommy Davidson -- I know it's going to get better.

And Whoopi Goldberg said that about me on her special, saying, "I know when I see people like Chris Thomas, it's going to get better."

>> So, Sir Frank, you mentioned some of the great giants, male and female, who've been awarded the AAhA award.

>> Yes, sir, the AAhA awards.

>> Where can people go find -- Is it a website about the African-American Humor Awards Society?

>> Well, they can go to itstheaahas.com or they can go to theaahas.com, and you can see clips of some of these people receiving this award.

Your question that you asked Chris about the beginning and how young people can relate.

Pretty much, I remember, man, the first one that we honored at the award show 32 years ago was a man named Rudy Ray Moore.

And after I did the award show, all these legends got together and threw a dinner in my honor.

Rudy Ray Moore, Marla Gibbs, Richard Pryor, Flip Wilson.

All these people got together, threw a dinner in my honor.

And at that dinner, Rudy Ray Moore presented me, as a gesture of gratitude, his gold album from the title of that movie, "Eat Out More Often."

And that album is still in my house right now, hanging on the wall.

And that's been 30-some years ago.

>> Well, both of you are like walking encyclopedias... >> Yes.

>> ...about comedy, about social justice.

>> Yes.

>> As you look toward the future, are you confident that the next generation will rise to the occasion and also use comedy as a method, as a strategy to bring about further social change?

>> Absolutely.

>> Well, it's going to take a little bit more than just humor.

It's going to take belief, belief in God, belief, most of all, in themselves.

When you wake up in the morning, you see yourself.

You see no one else unless they're standing behind you or to the side of you.

So they have to realize who they are.

They have to realize what they want to be and why.

>> So to me, the thing that I recognized about comedy and social justice is that you help, um, at the end of the day not just with a good joke, but a good joke that applies to bringing that resilience, bringing that ability... >> Yes.

>> ...to survive and thrive, even though things may not be going perfectly right.

>> Absolutely.

>> My take on that is this.

I'm going to give you a metaphor.

Back in the day, there's a saying that we take for granted every day.

I'm sure you've heard it.

A lot of people have heard this.

And that phrase is, you know, he or she is a barrel of laughs.

Okay, I'm sure you've heard that.

That phrase came from, back in the day, Black people would gather around town where there were potential jobs, working the fields.

People would come in to buy supplies, to go and work the fields.

Well, a lot of Black men would stand around and they would join each other.

>> I can tell you're from Alabama -- Go ahead.

>> And they would join each other -- Absolutely.

And they would talk junk and they would laugh and they would have fun.

Well, it intimidated a lot of white people.

So white people put a barrel on the corner.

So when these people got loud and started laughing and enjoying themselves, they would tell them, "Take and put your head in the barrel when you laugh.

That way it won't echo so much and people won't be intimidated by your laughter, even though y'all are having fun.

But you got to quiet it down.

So stick your head in that barrel."

And that's where the term "a barrel of laughs" come from.

Now, young people don't know this.

They don't even think about researching where their legacy started.

Sort of like what you've done, the things that you've done.

You should be held up to the utmost because of the things that you've accomplished with your equal-opportunity marches and the things that you stand for.

Young people don't think about that because we, as their parents, are not teaching them where you come from.

So if you don't know where your roots are, how are you going to grow into a beautiful, strong tree?

You can't do it.

>> What would be your recommendations, Chris, to some up-and-coming comedians today?

Not a long list, but what is the most important thing?

If you wanted to become a successful comedian that has a social consciousness, what would you say that is?

>> Well, I think that most people, even myself, we have to be able to check ourselves, be able to nudge ourselves and say, "Are you thinking before you react?

Are you sure that this is what you want to do if you can't do it well?

So I would say to the young people, especially coming in to comedy, we all have a story to tell.

Don't tell my story.

My story is not going to do you any good.

Tell your story whether it's good or bad.

But then you will find a way of making it humorous enough so the other people who are coming up in life just like you, they'll understand.

Because for every comedian, there is a crowd.

I have my crowd.

Eddie Murphy has his crowd, Kevin Hart has his crowd, Sylvia Traymore has her crowd.

And we have people who just want to listen to us.

Nobody else.

humor and resilience.

What's the connection?

>> The connection is this.

There are three people right now that I have the utmost of respect for.

I call this woman the Rosa Parks of comedy.

And that woman's name is Mo'Nique that took on the powers that be and made them recognize her worthiness.

The other person is a man named D.L.

Hughley.

D.L.

Hughley went on CNN and called the host of that show, Megyn Kelly, out for praising Mark Fuhrman after the Rodney King beating.

And the third one is a young man named Godfrey.

His father was from Africa.

He's a funny comedian, but he talks about how he used comedy to get his social points across and make social awareness through comedy, and he's damn good at it.

Those are my three young heroes right now, and the younger ones need to follow these people leads and see what they can do through comedy to bring about change.

We honored our first non-minority comedian in 2021.

And that man's name is Jay Leno.

>> Well, I would suggest that if he did his DNA, he would find out he's also a minority.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Well, that's true.

That's very true.

>> Because -- [ Chuckles ] >> [ Laughs ] >> I'm not trying to crack a joke.

You guys are the comedians.

But the truth is, there's only one race.

>> That's the human race.

>> That's the human race.

>> Absolutely.

>> We are all interconnected, intertwined.

And we need things like comedy to help us see our unity... >> Yes.

>> ...over our division, over our separateness.

So one of the things that African-American comedy has done is just not for Black folks.

>> Right.

>> So can you talk about how African-American comedy has transcended the boundaries, the pseudo boundaries of race?

>> I -- Okay.

I'm going to give you the perfect example.

When Dick Gregory, when Dick Gregory ran for presidency of the United States -- A lot of people don't know this, but this man was the first Black man to run seriously for presidency of the United States.

And he did it through harmony and through comedy.

He harmonized his message, and he garnered a lot of people -- whites, Blacks, you name it -- to support him, even though he didn't make it.

But he set that standard, and he set that seed for other Blacks to come along.

And this is what comedy can do.

We can bring the social consciousness of people through laughter because it's easier to digest.

This trophy was given to Chris in 2021, when we honored Mo'Nique, George Wallace, and Jay Leno.

This trophy belongs to Whoopi Goldberg that we gave to them 32 years ago at the first award show, and this trophy belongs to Eddie Murphy.

Now, both of these people were hot, young, up-and-coming comedians.

We had no idea that they were going to turn into what they've turned into now.

So comedy has transcended where they started to >> And I won my award -- I used to host a TV show.

I was the first comedian ever to host a rap video show on Black Entertainment Television.

>> On BET.

>> Yeah, back in 1989.

But it was the longest running rap video show in American history.

>> Both of you had some great experiences.

You're now in a position to be great mentors.

You're now in a position to make sure that that door doesn't close... >> Absolutely.

>> ...but open it even wider for the next generation of comedians.

What is your final word?

What gives you, Sir Frank, your greatest hope?

>> My optimism.

My optimism comes from having gone through all the things that I've done to get the AAhAs to where it is out of my own pocket and with the help of these two women I told you about -- Tricia Voorhies and Mitzi Voorhies -- and a lot of people believing in me.

We are talking to some producers about bringing it to TV, and one of the producers that we're talking to, her name is Em Gill.

She is a wonderful producer, and we're talking to some of BET's ex staff members and staff members about bringing it to TV.

So I'm very optimistic about this is going to happen for 2025.

>> So, Chris, what gives you your greatest hope today?

>> Well, the journey is still in progress.

Um, because I'm still doing what I love to do.

I think that in order for the nation, this United States of America, to be much better than the ultimate promise that we have is we have to show people more love and we have to be able to speak to each other.

That's probably one of the biggest problems in the world.

Nobody wants to speak until something happens.

So I'm hoping and with the prayer of the almighty living God that I pray each and every day for each and everyone worldwide that we're going to be okay.

And that's the only hope that I can ever pray for.

>> Chris Thomas, Sir Frank Cooper, thank you both for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Dr. Chavis, it's been a pleasure sitting here talking to you and finally seeing you again.

>> [ Speaking indistinctly ] The struggle continues.

>> We're going to keep them laughing.

Laughter has no color, so smile.

Thank you.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, visit our website at thechavischronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo, the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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